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Archive 1

Mysteries

1 - Metropolitan areas

The so called Northern Littoral Urban-Metropolitan Region/Porto Metropolitan Agglomeration with 2,99 million inhabitants, includes dozens of independent cities distributed across a large area ranging from Braga and Guimarães to Viana do Castelo in the northernmost district of Portugal.

In the same way, Lisbon Metropolitan Region (3,34 million inhabitants) includes for instance a city (Leiria) of northern central Portugal which is located over 120 km away from Lisbon in the heart of Centro Region.

A Google search for Northern Littoral Urban-Metropolitan Region (the most common Portuguese name is Conjunto Urbano-Metropolitano do Norte Litoral - links to the source used in this article, which is a study related with transportation) results almost exclusively in this wikipedia article. The Lisbon Metropolitan Region (in Portuguese, Região Metropolitana de Lisboa) is also meaningless as anyone can check.

The project for a reorganisation of Portuguese territory using the concepts of Conjunto Urbano-Metropolitano do Norte Litoral and Região Metropolitana de Lisboa is the PNPOT - Programa Nacional da Política de Ordenamento do Território which is only on a preliminary phase of discussion and is targeted for 2025.

2 - "De facto" cities

For PedroPVZ, the independent municipalities of Póvoa de Varzim and Vila do Conde are one single "de facto" city. I can accept that because the cities in question are close enough one to each other. But he does not include larger cities like Almada, Seixal and Barreiro, into the "de facto" cities table due to an unsearchable mystery.

My own personal view is that the user who makes such insane statements is missing something or is just playing with us again.Page Up 22:15, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


I removed Póvoa de Varzim-Vila from the table because it is not one city but two, and other neighbouring cities in Portugal are not cited. You can't include your hometown of Póvoa de Varzim without also refer to "de facto" cities like Faro-Olhão, Barreiro-Seixal-Moita, or Oliveira de Azeméis-Vale de Cambra-São João da Madeira. According to your view you should add Baga-Guimarães as a single unit too, with over 200 inhabitants. Include all or none.Page Up 17:33, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

  • there's a source, that is a government sponsored study. You have no idea on what you are talking, so the conversation ends here, more vandalism on your part, it will be collect to judge your behaviour in here, in these and other articles. And your technic on counter-attack won't save you. -Pedro 19:42, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
What makes you think that I am afraid of your allegations? Call the judges, it will be a pleasure. I have a lot of serious complaints about your actions here in Wikipedia. Look, the source provided by you has obvious flaws. It leaves open the possibility that any random group of towns can be considered as a single city with more population than some of the largest cities in the country opposing to Instituto Nacional de Estatística's official statistics. By including Leiria in a region centered in Lisbon or arbitrarily merging cities like Póvoa and V. Conde, ignoring others like Faro-Olhão or Barreiro-Seixal, just to mention a few, the "study" does not obey to any sort of scientific methodology or established conventions. It could be a good study about transportation-urbanism-mobility and the TGV, but it is not a treatise of the largest Portuguese cities. A source must be a scholarly work made by credible experts in the field. In this case the field is geography not transportation. But if you want to see your town's name on the table, you have to include other groupings of cities that are not less important than your town.Page Up 00:03, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
  • LOL.

Fernando Nunes da Silva teacher of Urbanism and Transportation in IST, he is president of CESUR- Operational Investigation and Regional and Urban Planing and Nuno Ventura Bento, IST assistant. The area between the cities of Póvoa and Vila do Conde had a polis program that aimed for a built-up consistency between both cities, it is completely urban, and you don't know where one city ends and where the other starts, even locals, don't know to which city they really belong. Like In Porto and Lisbon, people from that areas accept the fact they are from Póvoa, even being officially in another city, where most of pendulum movements occur, that is a de facto city, and if they considered a loose conurbation, the city would suppressed your Coimbra. I don't need to explain, you need a graduation on URBANISM to refute a study ordered by the government, and done by an urbanism institute. That study was made for the TGV train to know where people live. You didn't even read it, and again you are on a fine line here. What is saving you, is people not seeing how ridicule your points are: Oliveira de Azeméis-Vale de Cambra-São João da Madeira OMG!!! this one is the most ridicule I've read, I don't know if I laugh or I cry, I know I should ignore, but others, that don't know about this, are reading it. Braga-Guimarães LOL and what else Coimbra-Covilhã?! You are just trying to put this article has you did with others, using WP:OR and school boosterism. Admins only need to see your fantasy edits, like you made on this article. One thing is editing, ignorantly but in good faith, the other is playing around with wikipedia, writing non-sense in the article and personal attacks on the talk page.--Pedro 10:31, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

The concept of "de facto" cities, like other "de facto" something you love add to articles, is a product from your imagination in a effort to reach your POV goals, because as I know from experience of dealing with you, the "de jure" or the factual/official do not please you. It is a whole world of virtual reality you add to Portugal-related articles (Póvoa, history of education and schools, language, traditions are some few examples), among others like border disputes or remote islets. In the end, your tiny satellite town near Porto, the most kitsch and remote rituals/traditions you like to expose or your polytechnic school must be over raised to the status you romanticized on your mind. I wouldn't laugh so hard if I were you.Page Up 17:46, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
  • LOL. Yes, I see the article on higher education in Portugal, and I see you is really delusional about a university that was important in the past, and you use webometrics and a disputed ranking with no value to justify something in here no body believes, it is just a regional university that doesn't even attracts students from other areas of the country, in the past was important because it was the single one, you live in the 19th century and in a country-side city with a huge municipality that virtually increases its population and you don't understand problems that occur in metropolitan areas. What about Penacova-Santa Comba Dão? --Pedro 23:38, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
    • I changed the term "single urban area" (nonsense) to "city", following the reference (dead linked, now is available on a website of the Portuguese government). kept the term "largest urban areas" for information porpoises. cheers.

30 largest cities

  • AFAIK the data for the Rio Tinto is incorrect, although there's in fact a parish known as Rio Tinto with 47 137 inhabitants (2001), the city also includes 13 943 inhabitants (2001) of the parish of Baguim do Monte, so it has 60,000 inhabitants, although this place is not a real city, it's a 100% Porto "suburb"/extension. --Pedro 09:56, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I think Ethnic minorities and Persons with disability should not be together in one theme, but separate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.251.141 (talk) 18:33, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

What is Sexual Orientation doing under demographic statistic? It provides no statistical data, just political attitude about this subject in this country. This should be moved to Politics of Portugal —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.119.132.91 (talk) 16:52, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Second map: "Foreign-born naturalised citizens in Portugal by 2001"

Hi. I am not sure what this legend is actually saying. Does it refer to foreign citizens who moved to Portugal? Or does it refer to sons of Portuguese emigrants who moved to Portugal? Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 00:52, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

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