Talk:Defense of Van (1915)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Defense of Van (1915) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4: 4 months

Military history: Ottoman / World War I

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Ottoman military history task force
	World War I task force

Armenia Mid‑importance

	Defense of Van (1915) is within the scope of WikiProject Armenia, an attempt to improve and better organize information in articles related or pertaining to Armenia and Armenians. If you would like to contribute or collaborate, you could edit the article attached to this page or visit the project page for further information.ArmeniaWikipedia:WikiProject ArmeniaTemplate:WikiProject ArmeniaArmenian articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Former countries: Ottoman Empire C‑class

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles
C	This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Ottoman Empire (assessed as Low-importance).

Russia C‑class Low‑importance

	Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
C	This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the project-independent quality rating in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Turkey Low‑importance

	Turkey portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Turkey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Turkey and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TurkeyWikipedia:WikiProject TurkeyTemplate:WikiProject TurkeyTurkey articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Article trying to rewrite history

The title "Defense of Van" is trying to make the whole armed rebellion look like a "reaction" to the so called "genocide".

While the reality is that the Ottoman Army reacted to the attempts made by Armenian gangs who were trying to carve up Anatolia, attacking the weakened Ottoman state to create "Big Armenia". Just like Greeks in the west were doing.

As explained here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG70UWESfu4

And quite unbelievable that a "poor massacred victims" are able to capture other Ottoman cities: https://imgur.com/vVk1HWA

We have all the data. Sooner or later this article will be titled correctly. Even if not, it doesn't change reality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.230.180.9 (talk) 08:39, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Defense of Van (1915)

Van is a province of the Ottoman Empire. This is a rebellion. In order for this to be called a defense, there must be a state in that land. It is referred to as "siege of van" in many places on the internet. This article is named and content from a biased point of view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.191.138.126 (talk) 16:14, 25 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

Semi-protected edit request on 14 May 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The Armenian side is the Armenian revolutionary federation, not "Armenian fedayi" Jshmardutyun (talk) 20:20, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Callme mirela 🍁 20:30, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Unbalanced Article

This article is biased against the Ottomans, The biggest problem is the title, Van is a provience of the Ottoman Empire and the armed Armenian population isn't defending Van they are rebelling against Ottoman Empire. In English (which is the language of this article) defense means "the action of defending from or resisting attack" which isn't true because Armenians aren't defending Van. Rebellion would be more fitting for this article because The word Rebellion's meaning is: "an act of violent or open resistance to an established government or ruler". Which is true since Armenian population is attacking the Ottoman Empire. UpgradeWasTaken (talk) 12:34, 2 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

We write what WP:RS state, the above comment is an unfounded opinion. - Kevo³²⁷ (talk) 12:03, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What is exactly unfounded? That Van is a province of the Ottoman Empire? 76.22.119.7 (talk) 17:16, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can you explain us why it is an unfounded opinion instead of just calling it one? Here's the meaning of the word defense according to Oxford: "the act of protecting somebody/something from attack, criticism, etc." (https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/defense) UpgradeWasTaken (talk) 15:45, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Results

Please note that per Template:Infobox military conflict#Parameters, results "may use one of two standard terms: "X victory" or "Inconclusive"." The infobox has been amended to reflect this. Especially because this is a controversial topic, we need to follow the template guidance. I encourage editors to read the template "result" guidance in full before amending or reverting. Thanks! Annwfwn (talk) 11:52, 24 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Page name

I think it's better to call the article not "defense", but the battle of Van, since the fighting included not only the siege of the city by the Ottomans, but also the Russian offensive to break the siege, which in general saved the city. @Vanezi Astghik since you canceled my edit, can you explain why? Dushnilkin (talk) 10:10, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Moves in contentious topics should go through WP:RM which I already mentioned in my edit summary. You're not allowed to move contentious articles without a discussion, this is the rule on Wikipedia. But I personally wouldn't launch a Move because it's clear that "Defense of Van 1915" is the more common title for this article:

"Defense of Van 1915" 1580 hits
"Battle of Van 1915" 1260 hits

Vanezi (talk) 09:11, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I'm not going to change the name just like that, I'm sorry. But still, this is not such a big difference in hits, simply because the name creates a feeling of a purely defensive clash, although this is not true. Dushnilkin (talk) 14:16, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]