Talk:Death of Elijah Doughty

Disruptive editing

User Wikiaus98 continues disruptive editing of this page without citing references. It is established through multiple references that while Elijah Doughty was riding the stolen motorcycle when he was killed, there is no evidence that he himself stole it. This is a critical fact that needs to be established.

Wikiaus98 provides no evidence in editing to suggest Elijah Doughty stole the motorcycle that he was riding. Without police investigation and confirmation, the fact that nobody knows who stole the motorcycle needs to be clear. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.181.238.101 (talk) 04:00, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

See Wikiaus98 talk page where user confirms they are editing without evidence and in bad faith: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Wikiaus98 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:6B0B:4B00:94FB:609E:97B7:7147 (talk) 10:37, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

@Wikiaus98: hi. it is preferable to use the talk for discussion of the article. The content removed is not supported by the sources? This is the topic of discussion, not any individuals interpretation or what "we" know, so please restrict your comments to that. cygnis insignis 11:51, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

There’s no evidence he did not steal the bike, I’m editing this page the way I am so readers don’t see this as a racist killing as it wasn’t at all All I have done is remove the race of people involved as there is no need to include it so stop editing it back in and making it look like a racist attack and murderous as it wasn’t at all The people who keep editing it back are the ones who are putting the wrong thing in so stop it and i will too Wikiaus98 (talk) 13:49, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Response to Wikiaus98

As explained, there is no evidence he stole the bike. This approach is consistent with normal legal practice. Your statement 'There’s no evidence he did not steal the bike' from a legal standpoint is nonsense. Equally, there's no evidence that Wikiaus98 did not steal the bike.

Again, referencing the ethnicity of the man whose motorcycle was stolen (by who, nobody knows) is important in the racialised context and aftermath of the incident, particularly in the town of Kalgoorlie. This is consistent with many reports on the racialised aftermath in Kalgoorlie. It is not a pejorative anymore than referencing Elijah Doughty as an Indigenous Australian. It is a relevant identifying feature. Should the page not state that it was a 56-year old? Should the page not state it was a male? '56 year-old white male' is the only details reported of the perpetrator.

You claim "All I have done is remove the race of people involved". This is completely false and at no stage have you removed the race (Indigenous Australian) of Elijah Doughty. This suggests your edits are race-based and potentially coming from a place of fragility when discussing matters of race. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_privilege#White_fragility

It seems your continued disruptive edits are emotionally-based rather than based on any evidence. It's pretty hateful behaviour to persist in vandalising this page about a child who was killed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.181.238.101 (talk) 22:31, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Wrong

Once again you’re wrong You’re not listening to my reason and you have once again turned this page into a racial read by including the race of everyone involved

Bet you any money if Elijah was white you wouldn’t have included any race identity what so ever but because he was aboriginal you have to include it for the sop story that he was aboriginal and the man was white

Remove race in this article and I will stop editing it Wikiaus98 (talk) 18:54, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Wrong

What’s hateful is you continuing to put race in this article making it look like a racial murder when it wasn’t at all That is my only problem with this page it has nothing to do with anything else Race in this story is not important at all so stop kidding your self by adding it back in That’s the sad thing about this editing dispute is you doing that Wikiaus98 (talk) 18:57, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Wrong

And you clearly haven’t read what I say in my editing as I also removed Elijah’s race from my edit along with the mans race so you clearly just want to make this page look like a racial murder Wikiaus98 (talk) 19:00, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Final edit

There i have compromised and i believe this should be the final edit with no more editing from anyone

It doesn’t say he stole it and it doesn’t include any race besides being Australian (no colour mentioned) in the main headline

If you edit this back to the way it was with race including colour then you are far too politically correct and think this story is a racial murder and that is just very sad and may I say racist

To avoid this from not happening any further just simply leave it as it is and don’t edit this again — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiaus98 (talk • contribs) 19:10, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

I restored an earlier revision, and think this is where the discussion is up to. Those who have objected to the changes have also asked that discussion take place before reverting again. Wikiaus98 (talk · contribs) has reverted many times in several days, with the above replies. Whether this will "avoid this from not happening any further" or prove that I am "rascist" is difficult to tell, but I have given it much consideration and that is not the way the community works. cygnis insignis 19:50, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

.

Why does it bother yous that much that I’m removing race from this story? Why can’t it just be taken out and left with Wikiaus98 (talk) 19:56, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

@Wikiaus98: This is not a helpful approach. If you don't undo that last edit, it is possible you will be blocked for WP:3RR. Is that agreeable to you? cygnis insignis 20:01, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Leave it

You changing it back to a racial murderous article is not helpful I won’t agree until you stop putting race in this story That is my only ask and it is the only thing I have been editing — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiaus98 (talk • contribs) 20:04, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

I didn't add the content, I restored it. However, I did so because the sources support the attributed claims of bigotry and injustice involved in the case and aftermath, the criticism of the facebook site, it all seems pretty tame and conservative in detailing the facts. What you are presenting is opinion and reactions, which is not supported by sources, the "evidence", that you demand be provided to prove you wrong. How you think it could work otherwise is a mystery? cygnis insignis 21:06, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

You are not listening

I’m not putting anything wrong in the edit all I am clearly doing is removing race from the story as once again it’s not important what so ever for it to be included but for some stupid reason you think there is So really you’re the one that’s making this wrong and ‘restoring’ something that is wrong by adding back race that makes it look like again a racial murder when again it wasn’t Wikiaus98 (talk) 05:40, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Wikiaus98, if you read the rest of the article you'll see that Doughty's death lead to riots and protests, largely because it was asserted that the driver got off lightly only because Doughty was black. I've added a sentence to the lead section to that effect, for the benefit of other readers who (quite reasonably, according to MOS:INTRO) would expect the lead section to mention all of the relevant facts. Mitch Ames (talk) 06:56, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

WP:AN/EW

I've raised the matter of Wikiaus98's editing at WP:AN/EW. Mitch Ames (talk) 08:13, 2 June 2019 (UTC)