Talk:David Wetherall/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: --EdgeNavidad (talk) 07:12, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Starting review now.--EdgeNavidad (talk) 07:12, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Quick-fail assessment

The article completely lacks reliable sources – see Wikipedia:Verifiability. -
The topic is treated in an obviously non-neutral way – see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. -
There are cleanup banners that are obviously still valid, including {{cleanup}}, {{wikify}}, {{NPOV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{fact}}, {{clarifyme}}, or similar tags. -
The article is or has been the subject of ongoing or recent, unresolved edit wars. -
The article specifically concerns a rapidly unfolding current event with a definite endpoint. -

GA review (see here for criteria)

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:

B. MOS compliance:
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources:

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

The prose quality seemed ok to me, but English is not my first language so I am not going to judge on that, and I am going to find another reviewer for this. For the rest the article was of good quality. Some minor issues remaining, which can be solved easily. My biggest problem is the image: is there no free image available from Wetherall?

Issues

Leeds United

~~"and said to him as he lay on the ground": it is unclear who is laying on the ground.~~

Done Spiderone 12:15, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"as players such as Jonathan Woodgate broke into the team, and offers from Southampton and Huddersfield Town came in but he rejected them in favour of a move to Bradford City." From the context, it is clear that the last "he" refers to Wetherall and not to Woodgate, but it might be better just to replace it by "as players such as Jonathan Woodgate broke into the team, and offers from Southampton and Huddersfield Town came in but Wetherall rejected them in favour of a move to Bradford City."

Done Spiderone 12:31, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Bradford City

~~"But City went into the final game of the season facing possible relegation." Remove "But".~~

~~Done Spiderone 12:31, 10 October 2009 (UTC)~~[reply]

"City held on for a 1–0 win and with Wimbledon's defeat at Southampton, Bradford stayed up with a then-record low of 36 points.[19]" Not only in this sentence, but in the complete section: If you don't use the full name "Bradford City", then at least use "Bradford". "City" is used referring to many teams.

Done Spiderone 12:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I still see "City" three times. --EdgeNavidad (talk) 06:58, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And now they are all gone.--EdgeNavidad (talk) 06:58, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"His return to league action lasted just four games when he was ruled out for the rest of the season after scoring in a 2–2 draw with Newcastle United." Ruled out by what? The results of the previous groin operation?

Recurrence of groin injury, added with ref. Struway2 (talk) 15:20, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"The players then went on strike before a pre-season friendly at Hull City even though Wetherall, as the club's PFA representative denied the move would happen, before the club was saved, and players reinstated." I think this needs an extra comma after "representative".

Reworded. Struway2 (talk) 15:20, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Managerial career

~~"is due to complete his A licence during the summer of 2008": This is outdated. Did he complete it?~~

I can't find evidence. Should I remove it? Spiderone 11:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I will come back to this later.--EdgeNavidad (talk) 06:58, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Wetherall holds the UEFA B coaching licence and was planning to complete his A licence during the summer of 2008, when he would return to the Bradford City coaching set up.[72] He managed the club's reserves upon his return, and in the summer of 2009, he combined it with the role of youth side management, after Chris Casper left the club. However, he added he had been put off by senior management because of the day-to-day pressure of the job.[87]"

Is this accurate? I also have some problem with the "however" in the last sentence. Can you look at it, and see if you can word it differently? Is managing the reserves not regarded as senior management?--EdgeNavidad (talk) 06:59, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Spiderone solved this one.--EdgeNavidad (talk) 07:36, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Images

~~There is only one image. This is no reason to fail the GA, but one more would improve the article.~~

I can't find any free images. Spiderone 12:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Neither can I... --EdgeNavidad (talk) 06:58, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have given up on the search. --EdgeNavidad (talk) 06:59, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Stuart mccall image: The caption does not make clear that this is McCall and not Wetherall, and does not say what McCall was doing when he left (captain or manager). A better caption might be something like "Stuart McCall, captain of Bradford City until he left in 2002, when Wetherall took over." But I think you can come up with something better.

Done Spiderone 12:37, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

~~Explain abbreviations (WAFLL, BBC) at least once.~~

I did the BBC one but unfortunately I don't think WAFLL stands for anything. Spiderone 11:15, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Since I messed with the Leeds section, the article no longer uses WAFLL as a source, so the problem doesn't arise. Struway2 (talk) 11:54, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

~~Reference 55 ([1]) is currently not working, although that may be fixed soon.~~

It is still broken, so you might want so search for a replacing reference or use an archive.--EdgeNavidad (talk) 06:58, 13 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Spiderone has replaced it. Struway2 (talk) 11:54, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's all! --EdgeNavidad (talk) 08:06, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Second round of comments

A few things that I missed the first time:

~~Explain what PFA stands for. You might also want to link to the article.~~

Have written it out in words and linked. Though if you think it needs to explain that the PFA is the players' union, we could change the sentence to read "They went as far as taking strike action before a pre-season friendly at Hull City, even though Wetherall, as the players' union representative, had initially denied they would do so,", and link the words "players' union" to the PFA article. Struway2 (talk) 09:54, 21 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No, it's fine the way you did it. If you use an abbreviation, you should explain it at least the first you use it. For example: "... even though Wetherall, as their Professional Footballers' Association (PFA) representative ...". Later on, you can use PFA where you want. But the way you handled it, replacing every instance, is also an option.--EdgeNavidad (talk) 06:59, 23 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, I have to leave now. I hope I can get back to this in about 10 hours from now. --EdgeNavidad (talk) 06:58, 19 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Struway2 (talk · contribs)

There are a couple of things that would concern me if this aticle were passed as it currently stands, though I'm not the main reviewer and would not question their decision.

The sentence "On 27 September 1997, Wetherall played and scored in the 1–0 victory over arch-rivals Manchester United when Roy Keane's knee was badly injured by Alf-Inge Haaland." (my italics) is factually incorrect: Keane's knee wasn't injured by Haaland, and none of the three references after the sentence verify that it was. His knee was injured in his attempt to foul Haaland, and the whole Keane-Haaland aftermath arose because Haaland accused Keane of feigning injury to avoid punishment for the foul. Many sources can be found to verify this.
I've reworded this bit myself, and added sources, thought it shouldn't really be left uncorrected. Struway2 (talk) 13:10, 8 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]
On breadth of coverage, Wetherall's 200-game Leeds career has only 2 paragraphs, which contain a couple of longish quotes but little detail. His 300-game Bradford career has nearly four times as much prose and quite a lot of detail. For balance, could nothing more be added about his Leeds career?

I honestly can't find any more sources. Spiderone 12:15, 10 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thought it'd be a pity to drop this article now it's got this far, so I've expanded the Leeds section. I'd say there's probably enough content now to pass breadth of coverage, but obviously the prose, MoS, etc will need checking. Hope this helps, cheers, Struway2 (talk) 11:53, 12 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All the comments have now been addressed, including Struway2's. I gave the article a last check, and it really looked like a Good Article to me. Good work! --EdgeNavidad (talk) 07:36, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review! Spiderone 08:52, 26 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]