Talk:David Soren (animator)

David Soren (animator) Change

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. There doesn't seem to be consensus to move to a different disambiguator (yet). ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 16:43, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

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David Soren (animator) → David Soren (director) – David's movie Turbo is coming out in theatres in two weeks, better known as Director/Writer. Jchoi.dwa (talk) 22:24, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

• Oppose. Proposed move appears from the discussion below to violate WP:BALL. There's also some discussion about the best disambiguator, but no valid argument yet to justify moving from the current one. Andrewa (talk) 20:40, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
• Oppose - Looking at other similar articles, there are biographies which use the same disambiguator, for example Ken Anderson (animator), and there are other alternatives, for example, Mark Andrews (filmmaker). Overall, I'm unconvinced about the necessity of moving this page at the moment. In other words, the current title is reasonable, and none of the alternatives seem to be much of an improvement. PhilKnight (talk) 13:32, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

Any additional comments:

Is this perhaps premature? Yes, he has worked as a director before, and yes, there are high hopes for Turbo (film), his first really big project as a director. But according to the article he's also worked on Chicken Run, Over the Hedge (film), Madagascar: Escape 2 Africa (although our article doesn't seem to list him) and of course the original Shrek. So as yet his main claim to fame seems to be as an animator. Andrewa (talk) 23:32, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Premature? I think this should have been changed a long time ago after his first directing gig. Are you saying because these films weren't as famous, he shouldn't be recognized as a director? And what about all those independent film directors? He spent four years directing a movie with a multimillion dollar budget with the trust of a world-renowned studio and a crew of over 200. I'm not sure if claim to fame should determine a persons title. jchoi_wiki (talk) 11:13, 2 July 2013

The title should reflect whichever role he is primarily known for. That should be determined by examining how he has primarily been referred to in reliable sources. Or perhaps we could sidestep the issue – how about "David Soren (animated filmmaker)"? —BarrelProof (talk) 22:16, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

I think calling him 'director' is slightly ambiguous as it could imply a company director, that is a boardroom director, as opposed to a film director. I'm ok with calling him a 'animated filmmaker' though. PhilKnight (talk) 22:40, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Can we have it as just David Soren in that case. Please see other Directors at the studio - Chris Sanders or Peter Ramsey jchoi_wiki (talk) 16:56, 2 July 2013

There's already an article about someone else at "David Soren". This article is actually viewed more often than that one (4201 versus 826 times in the last 90 days). But that's not enough to say that our David Soren is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC known as "David Soren". It's only enough to justify having "David Soren" lead to a disambiguation page. —BarrelProof (talk) 00:33, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Here are some articles from reliable sources referring to David as a Director, if the page cannot be David Soren, it should be David Soren (director) as can be seen on Chris Sanders page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Sanders_%28director%29

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/cineeurope-jeffrey-katzenberg-hosts-world-574045 http://www.indycar.com/News/2013/06/6-27-Turbo-director-realizes-his-dream-too http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/maymadness/2013/05/24/turbo-director-david-soren-spotted-at-the-speedway http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/motor/indycar/2013/05/26/turbo-ryan-reynolds-michael-pena-indianapolis-500-indycar/2361693/ http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/466552/Turbo/details http://variety.com/2012/film/news/indycar-teams-with-dreamworks-on-turbo-1118051333/ http://www.zimbio.com/photos/Snoop+Dogg/David+Soren

Question: In the phrase "we'd love to have David Soren (director)", who is "we"? —BarrelProof (talk) 01:28, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Question: Why is that relevant to the issue at hand? (Adjusted to your liking) To avoid sidestepping yet again, Phil - I tried looking up Animated Filmmaker, it isn't a title frequently used to describe anyone in the entertainment industry. I don't even know if it's a real title, kind of like Drinks Enthusiast. Are there any other titles we can look into? jchoi_wiki (talk) 12:32, 3 July 2013

The relevance of the question "who is 'we'?" is because – to me – it seems to hint at possible issues with WP:NOSHARING (or WP:COI). I don't actually want to know who you are in WP:REALLIFE, as I fully respect your WP:PRIVACY. I am just trying to see whether there is some issue with WP:NOSHARING or WP:COI. —BarrelProof (talk) 21:50, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

So you think I have more than one account on this discussion and am having a debate with myself? Please tell me who else could possibly be me in this. jchoi_wiki (talk) 15:49, 3 July 2013

No, I don't think you have more than one account in this discussion. That's not what WP:NOSHARING talks about. It's about having a single account used by more than one person (i.e., a "we" rather than an "I"). If your account is being used by only one person (and you do not have a WP:Conflict of interest issue) it's not a problem. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:42, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Animated filmmaker (or various case variations of it) strikes me as ambiguous, remembering that English Wikipedia is for all Wnglish speakers not just native speakers. It could mean a character in an animated film who himself makes films. It's amusing and I suspect Soren would love it, but that's not our purpose here.

But I'm afraid none of the above addresses my basic concern, see below. Andrewa (talk) 20:36, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

To me, the suggested alternative parsing of "animated filmmaker" seems really obscure. —BarrelProof (talk) 21:50, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm guessing you're a native speaker. Andrewa (talk) 17:15, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Guilty as charged. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:36, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

In reply to the first reply, yes, premature. At least. Your opinion is relevant, but only as it relates to Wikipedia article naming policy, and it doesn't seem to do so. Vote above. Andrewa (talk) 20:36, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Per the naming policy article - "Generally, article titles are based on what the subject is called in reliable sources" - please see above list of articles from sources. jchoi_wiki (talk) 15:55, 3 July 2013

I did see those, and I don't think that there's any question that director would be an acceptable disambiguator, as these show. What they don't show is that it's a better disambiguator than animator, and that's the whole issue here. Andrewa (talk) 17:31, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.