Talk:David Davis (British politician)

POV

This article has been rewritten since the Conservative leadership campaign commenced and now has a rather anti-davis tone to it. Interestingly, and perhaps tellingly, the David Cameron entry is now much more pro-cameron. Parts need re-writing to maintain a neutral point of view. I will try to get round to it later.

I have deleted a paragraph critising Davis' oratory skills as I felt this was a POV (StudentSteve 07:52, 2 February 2006 (UTC))

Better Picture

I really don't think the current picture on this article is a very good likeness at all. There's also something strange going on in the background! Anyone got anything better?! Oliver Keenan 15:42, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

SAS regiment

This article claims that Davis was a member of 23 SAS, whereas the article for 21 SAS claims he was a former member. Which is correct?

Both. The SAS works by attachment from the trooper's original unit, assigning men according to skills needed. He joined 21 in London, but when he moved to Warwick on his Degree Course, 23 (in Kings Norton) became his base. I had been approached by one of his colleagues in 23 to join them, a couple of years later, which was formalised the next year, as a replacement for Robert Nairac, attached from the Intelligence Corps. Unfortunately, I was as good as they thought, getting the Regular IRA to talk, and discovered Fred Mulley's role in sinking their joint initiative, a proto-Stormont: boy were they furious with the Provisionals. That cost over 1600 lives, and caused the Troubles to destroy an entire generation's aspirations to a normal life. This is one reason David moved into politics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.70.112.105 (talk) 22:49, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Resignation

Surely he is still the MP at the current moment ? 195.157.52.65 (talk) 15:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

It's a good point. I'd assume that, no, he isn't, since he says he has already gone. At the same time, I don't know how long it takes for the Chiltern Hundreds or the Manor of Northstead to actually kick in. However, since all the sources say he has resigned, and he says he has resigned and nobody has information to the contrary, then under Wikipedia rules, we can take it as read that he is indeed a former MP. (For American readers, please note that the UK has no tradition of "lame duck" periods - the UK system is brutally swift, replacing one member with another in the space of a few hours. We don't do lame duck and we don't do delayed inaugurations.) ➨ ЯEDVEЯS used to be a sweet boy 19:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

if he had resigned, the treasury would have the press release here http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/newsroom_and_speeches/press/2008/press2008_index.cfm (they did it for blair and boris)ninety:one 19:32, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

False precedent. Blair was First Lord of the Treasury. Johnson controls largest non-Westminster budget in England. Davis is nothing to the Treasury. Better to look for an announcement at parliament.uk than to a branch of the government. ➨ ЯEDVEЯS used to be a sweet boy 19:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think so. It is the chancellor who nominally approves appointments to the Manor of Northstead and the Chiltern Hundreds, according to parliament's document here [1]. As such, the treasury would be the place to find such an announcement. I doubt the treasury announce Boris's mayoral election, a much more important change. Dmn € Դմն 20:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Upon receipt of a Member's application for the Chiltern Hundreds, a warrant of appointment is signed (in the presence of a witness) by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Since 1850, these have been registered and retained in the Treasury. On the day the warrant is signed a letter is sent to the Member, omitting the letters MP after his name, to inform him that he has been appointed to the office. Letters of notification are also sent at the same time to the Offices of the Speaker and the Government and Opposition Whips. As soon as practical, the appointment is noted in the London Gazette. It is also the practice for the Treasury to issue a brief press notice.

By looking at previous notices in the Gazette, here [2], it could take a few days before confirmation comes through. Dmn € Դմն 22:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

This might fruitfully be deleted, as it was never factual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.70.112.105 (talk) 22:52, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Chiltern Hundreds

Question - if he takes the 'Chiltern Hundreds' (or the Manor of Northstead) how can he stand for parliament again until someone else relieves him of that post? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.33.2.163 (talk) 00:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

He resigns (asks to be "released") from the job. Taking the Hundreds or the Manor is one of the UK's little constitutional games, a charade left behind from previous practice. Once it was a real and permanent thing. Now it is just a device. Davis has resigned and will re-stand for election. The actual charade of how this is done is meaningless and everybody knows it! ➨ ЯEDVEЯS used to be a sweet boy 07:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC).

Follow Up Question - is the charade so meaningless that he can actually stand again, or does he have to resign the Chiltern Hundreds?

Question - is this resignation an 'abuse of process' or is there precedent for this kind of behaviour? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.33.2.163 (talk)

First question: both - the charade is completely meaningless, so he can actually stand again, and he will be released from the Hundreds in order to do it. Second question: the resignation is not an abuse of process, it is entirely normal, and it does have precedent - all the Unionist MPs in Northern Island stepped down in protest at the Anglo-Irish Agreement in 1985, prompting, in effect, a mini-General Election in NI. They then all stood again and won their seats back. Davis is following this precedent, if anything. ➨ ЯEDVEЯS used to be a sweet boy 09:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

This should be deleted, as it's conjectural. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.70.112.105 (talk) 22:54, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Notes

The comments in the "Notes" section of the article are obviously biassed and should be removed immediately.

-Cymrob (talk) 12:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

There are no comments in the Notes section - just half a dozen links to newspaper articles being used as references. ➨ ЯEDVEЯS used to be a sweet boy 12:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Someone edited the article to add some home-spun opinion. It was quickly reverted as it is against Wikipedia policy to put this type of blog nonsense in articles. You can remove this stuff yourself if you see it in future - just edit the page and remove it (and say what you're doing in the edit summary). ➨ ЯEDVEЯS used to be a sweet boy 12:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, it's gone now. I'll probably write something about the criticism of the decision in the "Resignation" Section - in an objective way. I registered just so I could correct that, I can't stand that kind of thing.Cymrob (talk) 12:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Cool. Just remember to cite your reliable sources for any criticism. Edit the article and you'll see the quick-and-dirty way we've been using (it's the stuff in the <ref>...</ref> tags). ➨ ЯEDVEЯS used to be a sweet boy 13:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Former MP

Removed twice now. This is unsourced and therefore must not be returned without impeccable sourcing. Thanks, SqueakBox 22:10, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

You don't need a source for such a screaming piece of absolute common sense. In what universe can you resign from being an MP without becoming a former MP? Is he still meeting his constituents for MP matters? No. Is he still being paid as an MP? No. Is the constituency position vacant? Yes. MickMacNee (talk) 22:39, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

the thing is that he hasn't actually resigned yet :p resignation from the british house of commons ninety:one 22:47, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

(ec)Jesus Christ. Well as Squeak box has forced me into three reverts, without even explaining why you need a source for common sense, or why he is blind to the numerous sources all over the article that state he has resigned, then we will just have to wait the whole weekend before it becomes 'official' and he takes the Kings money (I am actually presuming his is the basis of his revert, and not the original nonsense he gave about Tony Blair calling a general election being relevant to this). I only hope that we don't confuse any of his constituency members who mistakenly go and try to meet him on urgent business this weekend, on the mistaken belief that he is not their former MP, due to the excellent but rather ridiculous due diligence of Squeak Box on their number one resource for such facts. MickMacNee (talk) 22:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

And we do need a source as it is disputed. With a source it would be fine but to calim "common sense" is not fine. Thanks, SqueakBox 22:49, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

See above, I haven't got a clue why you're disputing it, and not sure why you're blind to all the references already on the page. Do you want to dispute whether the sky is blue while you're at it? MickMacNee (talk) 23:01, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I am not going to wade through all the refs on the page when you can do so and ref this. All I am asking for is a source but if we could reword the sentence to make us both happy I would be up for that too. And the thing is, with Boris or Blair (resigniong as MP) before him there is no real world controversy whereas with Davis there is and I would suggest that this is part of the issue. Ninetyone's statement is also relevant. All I would like is a source, and I am far from convinced that any of the current refs gives one (obviously I have been reading around the issue same as all of us). Thanks, SqueakBox 23:11, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that every single one of the nine references in the article contain the phrase "David Davis has resigned as an MP". I'm not seeing the controversy here, bar a technicality that matters not a jot (it was actually more important in the case of Boris/Blair than here). I'm not going to reference it on principle now. Nobody should have to jump through such ridiculous hoops when you decide to edit so bizarrely. MickMacNee (talk) 23:46, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Your hostile attitude is not welcome. I hope you can live with the alternative I have edited rather than trying to fight me with comments like "I'm not going to reference it on principle now. Nobody should have to jump through such ridiculous hoops when you decide to edit so bizarrely" which merely poison the atmosphere. Thanks, SqueakBox 01:16, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

The conservatives offcial site has him listed as a "Parliamentary Candidate" rather than as an MP, that should be good enough for anyone: http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=people.person.page&personID=4881 , and he no longer appears on their list of MPs: http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=people.mps.list.page&by=name ("David Davies" is different MP with a similar name) Tomgreeny (talk) 01:08, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I meant this Resignation from the British House of Commons. Regardless of what the sources say, he is still an MP until so appointed. we had this problem over at Boris Johnson when he got elected, when do we decide to eschew the legal truth in favour of being useful? the best option is to explain that whilst he still is an MP, it means nothing for a few days. ninety:one 14:16, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Again, this should be deleted, as it's conjectural, not factual

David Davis and David Davies (with E and without E)

Apparently some people mistakenly took David Davis as David Davies. Both are conservatives.
see [3] we need to give a link to his page from this page. Some kind like:
"This page is about David Davis, Conservative politician from (insert text here). Click here to see a similarly named Conservative politician, David Davies

just my suggestion w_tanoto (talk) 22:54, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

And notice something else, Davies is referred to as "Welsh" and Davis as "British". To be consistent, they should either both be referred to as British, or Davis as English and Davies Welsh. Ausseagull (talk) 07:49, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Still not resigned

According to Ben Brogan, David Davis is still an MP and will not take the Chiltern Hundreds until after PMQs on Wednesday.[4] Would people care to make the appropriate corrections to the article? DWaterson (talk) 17:41, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

does this means tony blair would be moved from his position in chiltern hundreds? w_tanoto (talk) 23:39, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

he will lose the position, yes. ninety:one 09:55, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Re-elected!

[5] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.155.173.155 (talk) 03:04, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Duplicate info

A lot of the info in the top right box is also in the boxes at the bottom. I'm used to seeing those boxes at the bottom from many other political biographies. The top one is a new one to me and seems a bit silly given the success of those at the end. The preceded/succeeded format seems to work well written horizontally. --bodnotbod (talk) 13:14, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Title

If the other David Davis is Welsh, this one should be English. BOTH are British so this doesn't distinguish from the other guy. John Smith's (talk) 08:22, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Page moved accordingly. John Smith's (talk) 20:42, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Gee, you waited a whole 12 hours for comments. I suppose you never even considered that their names are actually spelt differently, and that both could have been located at (British politician)? Or that people reading 'David Davies (Welsh politician) might similarly be confused at to whether he is an MP or an AM? Still, at least you are fixing all the incoming redirects...oh no wait, you aren't. MickMacNee (talk) 21:51, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

No need to be so sarcastic - this is not a highly active page. I didn't see the spelling difference, but in that case there's no special need to have the Welsh guy mentioned. I'll remove that and change the page back. John Smith's (talk) 08:42, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Photo

I wonder if we could get a better photo that shows his whole face rather than this cropped oblique profile? 94.173.122.171 (talk) 00:54, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Resignation to Re-election Interval - Record?

As the interval, I deduce, was 22 days, is this a record for a House of Commons comeback?Cloptonson (talk) 21:48, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Climate Change

The section on David Davis being a climate change sceptic and the quote cited is inappropriate, having read the source. The quote cited changes in context. In context it looks much more like the statement about the difficulties of science showing the effects of global warming, than it is a rebuttal of the theory.

Other quotes from the same article

"In Rio de Janeiro in 1992, the international community promised cuts by 2000. In Kyoto in 1997, they promised even greater cuts by 2010. Neither happened."

"We often worry, properly, about the potential effects of global warming on the poorer parts of the world."

101.78.178.186 (talk) 03:39, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. I have removed this section, although I suspect it will mysteriously be rolled back and re-added without explanation. 81.157.84.224 (talk) 13:14, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Excessive use of word "Brexit"

I made a constructive edit to make a change to the Secratary of State section to make the language more encyclopedic and add a link to a relevant article. I changed; "part of the Brexit process." to "part of the process of Withdrawal from the European Union". This has since been reverted by AusLondonder; I am changing it back and I wanted to explain why and direct this to the talk page as an act of good faith to prevent an edit war. I will explain my reasons for the change:

1. I do realise that a number of people seem to love portmanteau's but we need to avoid unnecessary/excessive use of the word "Brexit", especially in place of official names and terminology; Wikipedia is meant to be an encyclopedia after-all, not a tabloid or some sort of News Outlet. I am not saying the term "Brexit" has no place on Wikipedia; I am saying we should not excessively use the word and certainly not in place of things with an official name. In this case there is official terminology for "Brexit process" it is called "Withdrawal from the European Union", this term is codified into law.

2. My edit added a link to a relevant article that was not already linked.

3. The word "Brexit" is already used within the same small paragraph. This is unnecessary repetition. The new version reads much better.

Thanks 118.148.203.133 (talk) 06:56, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Warwick men's choir

"... 1968–71). Whilst at Warwick, [ ...] he founded a men's choir that sang songs from the eighties"

Unless he was studying time-travel this doesn't make sense. Was it the 1880s? The citation just links to a page about the choir, so doesn't seem to corroborate this fact. --Tim flatus (talk) 18:20, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

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Educational qualifications

Are there any good sources for his University of Warwick degree (BSc Joint Hons Molecular Science/Computer Science 1968–71)?

Is a 6 week corporate CPD course really a meaningful educational element or just a tenuous allusion to a Harvard qualification? Misleading? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.15.107.39 (talk) 20:45, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 July 2018

'Davis resigned from his government position on 8 July 2018. Following that Suella Braverman and Steve Baker also resigned.'

- Suella Braverman has not resigned an remains in post 86.20.217.121 (talk) 10:02, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

 Done The two sources do not say Suella Braverman resigned; I have removed her name from the sentence. Thank you for noticing this. Sam Sailor 10:50, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Change from Communist to Conservative

It would be interesting to have some information about his change from Communist to Conservative. Francis Hannaway (talk) 18:06, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

It reflected his childhood identity, inherited from his father, becoming more autonomous in the SAS. He's a moderate centre-ist - our common friend Rory Stewart's currently teamed up with Tony Blair's former aide Alistair Campbell, creating a new centrist outfit in reaction to Boris Johnson and Elizabeth Truss's policies, which hold traditional Conservative values in contempt: our service as veterans actually poses a challenge to their ambition. 5.70.112.105 (talk) 23:12, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Removing Knighthood

Why has Davis' knighthood been removed. A honour becomes affective the moment it is approved and announced by the Monarch. Davis is officially Sir David Davis. This seems to happen repeatedly, where editors presume that the honour doesn't take affect until the accolade and insignia has been presented - this is not the case (in fact in some cases an individual can take quite some time until they are free to receive the insignia). IHGSA52859 (talk) 13:36, 30 December 2023 (UTC)