Talk:Darrell Evans/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Sportsfan77777 (talk · contribs) 01:14, 14 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

I don't think it's good style to have the first paragraph just be one sentence. Most of the stuff currently in the second paragraph should probably just be in the first.
Rather than just list the positions and teams he played for, it might be better to say which positions he played with each team. Something along the lines of "He started his career playing eight seasons as a third baseman for the Atlanta Braves. He played another eight seasons with the San Francisco Giants, where he alternated between first and third base..."
The lead should highlight which teams he had his biggest accomplishments. You do this well with saying he won the World Series with the Tigers, but there is no mention of which teams his other accomplishments came with.
the first to hit 40 home runs in both the National and American Leagues ===>>> the first to hit 40 home runs in a season in both the National and American Leagues
Add that he was the oldest player to lead the American League in home runs (at the time?)

Early years

Evans was born in 1947 <<<=== might as well state the exact date
Born into a baseball family, his mother Eleanor (Salazar) Evans <<<=== This grammatical construction doesn't work (unless you're trying to say his mother was born into a baseball family). How about "Evans was born on May 26, 1947 in Pasadena, California into a baseball family."
Mention that his mother is of Mexican descent.
Too many sentences start with "His" in this paragraph. Change at least one of the last three (or break them up by adding a sentence in-between).
The third paragraph can be combined with the second.
1965-66 academic year <<<=== Use this dash: –
he was the leading scorer for PCC's basketball team and led the baseball team with a .423 batting average. ===>>> he led PCC's basketball team in scoring while also leading the baseball team in hitting with a .423 batting average. (to fix lack of parallelism)
Briefly state who Jerry Tarkanian is.

Minor leagues

Explain where he was drafted and why he didn't sign. (This link that you already use explains it.)
State the Class for each of: "Leesburg in the Florida State League, Peninsula in the Carolina League, and Bradenton of the Gulf Coast League", and the other minor league teams as well
"though his playing time was limited by military obligations. Evans served in the United States Marine Corps from 1967 to 1968." <<<=== You could improve the writing flow in these two sentences.
Do you know why he joined the Marines? Also, I think he was only in the reserves.

Atlanta Braves to 1972

Combine the first two paragraphs.
Did the A's decline to reclaim him when he was sent down in 1969?
but Atlanta manager Lum Harris continued to relegate Evans to the minors <<<=== This isn't accurate. Evans only played in September.
In late May 1971 <<<=== In late May
Evans appeared in 72 games at the third base <<<=== Evans started 67 games at third base
ranking among the league's third basemen ===>>> ranking high among the league's third basemen

Atlanta Braves 1973

Evans had a breakout season with the 1973 Braves ===>>> Evans had a breakout season in 1973.
total at least 40 home runs ===>>> hit at least 40 home runs
"He was selected as the reserve third baseman (behind starter Ron Santo) on the 1973 National League All-Star team and led the major leagues with 125 walks and 143 runs created. He also ranked among baseball's elite with 294 times on base (second in MLB behind Pete Rose), .556 slugging percentage (third in MLB), 331 total bases (third in MLB), 41 home runs (third in MLB), 74 extra base hits (third in MLB), a 9.0 Wins Above Replacement rating (fourth in MLB), 114 runs scored (fourth in MLB), and 105 RBIs (fifth in MLB)." <<<=== Put these more in order of importance rather than rank. How about: "He was selected as the reserve third baseman (behind starter Ron Santo) on the 1973 National League All-Star team, ultimately finishing the year with 41 home runs (third in MLB behind Willie Stargell and teammate Davey Johnson) and an on-base plus slugging percentage (OPS) of .959 (third in MLB behind teammate Hank Aaron and Stargell). Evans also led the major leagues in walks with 125 and runs created with 143. With his high walk rate, he reached based 294 times, second only to Pete Rose. Additionally, he was third in extra bases hits with 74, and also finished fourth in runs scored with 114 and fifth in RBIs with 105. This was the only season of Evans's career where he had over 100 runs or 100 RBIs."
the 1973 Braves finished fifth in the National League West with a 76–85 record ===>>> the 1973 Braves finished fifth in the National League West with a 76–85 record due to their mediocre pitching, who allowed the most runs in the National League.

Atlanta Braves past 1974

resulting in his winning ===>>> resulting in him winning
Note that huge drop in his batting average in 1974.
Aaron's third spot in the batting over ===>>> Aaron's third spot in the batting order
Evans output slowed ===>>> Evans's output slowed
as he totaled 22 home runs, 73 RBIs, and a .406 slugging percentage ===>>> as he totaled just 22 home runs and 73 RBIs to go along with a .406 slugging percentage

San Francisco Giants

Maybe these weren't Evans's most interesting years, but you can still expand this section.
Who was Evans competing with for the 3B spot?
Mention how the Giants did these years. 1978 and 1982 weren't so bad.
He won the 1983 Willie Mac Award ===>>> He won the team's 1983 Willie Mac Award
In general, the paragraphs should be longer in this section.

Detroit Tigers 1984

Mention the Tigers won the World Series towards the end of the second paragraph, not at the beginning
State how the Tigers did in the regular season.
State how the Tigers did in the ALCS. Evans also did better in the ALCS.
State who they played in the World Series, and the result by games
missed several games while attending the funeral ===>>> missed several games to attend the funeral

Detroit Tigers 1985

In 1985, Evans had his most successful season in a Detroit uniform. <<<=== That seems subjective, and I don't even agree with it. He had a higher BA, OPS, R, and RBI in 1987, plus they made the playoffs that year. How about: "In 1985, Evans had one of the best offensive seasons of his career."
driven by 85 walks ===>>> as a result of drawing 85 walks
Mention how the Tigers did

Detroit Tigers 1986 to 1988

for the 1986 Tigers ===>>> that season
Note that 1987 was his best career finish in the MVP voting
Note that his 99 RBIs was the second-most of his career
What was the result of the ALCS? Who did they play?
What were the circumstances (inning, score, series situation) when he was picked off?
He appeared in his final major league game on October 1, 1989, at age 42. <<<=== This belongs in the next section.

Swan song with the Braves

Specify that he signed a minor league contract, but made the team anyway.
with 11 home runs ===>>> with 11 home runs, tied for a career-low.

Career highlights

The second paragraph needs citations for both sentences.

Managerial and coaching career

Independent Northern League ===>>> independent Northern League
Merge the last five paragraphs. The last one is out of order.

Family and later years

Is the UFO sentence actually important?
Is there anything else you can put in this section?

Overall

The writing is decent. I pointed out some places above where it could be better.
It is decently comprehensive, but I did find some things I thought were missing that I pointed out above.
The lead could be better organized, in particular.
The Giants section should be expanded, in particular.
I don't like how the sub-sub-section headers are done. How about: "1969 to 1972", "1973: Breakout season", "1974 to 1976", "1984: World Series title", "1985: Home run title", "1986 to 1988"?
No dab links.
"Evans has been described by author Bill James as" <<<=== This was caught as borderline plagiarism. Describe Bill James as something other than an author (e.g. leading sabermetrician?)
This link: 2011 instructors doesn't work.

The article is decent shape, but there are areas that should be improved. Placing on hold. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 21:14, 15 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cbl62, LegoBot doesn't seem to be sending out notifications for this article, so just letting you know I did this review today. (See above.) Sportsfan77777 (talk) 00:53, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As I disagree with some of the suggestions above, I've decided to withdraw the Good Article nomination rather than make changes that I feel would reduce the quality of the article. Cbl62 (talk) 23:17, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I do appreciate the review and followed a number of the suggestions. Others, though, I did not agree with. Cbl62 (talk) 00:00, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Cbl62, okay, but are you sure you don't want to discuss anything? Sportsfan77777 (talk) 04:03, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Always willing to discuss ways to improve an article. I followed many of your suggestions and didn't agree with others. Are there any of your remaining suggestions that you think prevent the article from being rated as a "Good" article? Cbl62 (talk) 19:55, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cbl62 I apologize for neglecting this review for the past month.

I think the comments on expanding and re-emphasizing the lead are rather fundamental, as Wizardman also brought that up in their review. Some baseball good articles that do a better job at this are Joe Nathan, Trevor Hoffman, and Jeff Bagwell (and of course, FA examples like Babe Ruth).
I also think the comments on combining and/or expanding very short paragraphs would probably be brought up by other reviewers. Generally, it's a common concern for sports biographies to look like WP:PROSELINE. As such, I tend to prioritize making sure articles don't look like that during reviews. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:07, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There are certainly some aspects of this article that are good, but I'm hesitant to pass it because of those two points in particular (the second of which occurs in several different parts of the article). I can still fail this review, and you're welcome to look for another reviewer, of course. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 05:07, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Sportsfan77777: Thanks for the additional feedback. I redid the lead per your suggestion and the comments of Wizardman. In both my professional writing and here on Wikipedia, I take a different view of short paragraphs. In particular, I believe that paragraphs should be built around a defined topic, some of which warrant long paragraphs and others of which may warrant short paragraphs. I also believe that a longer section may appropriately summed up by a short paragraph at times. I do not believe that the article remotely resembles the scattered approach reflected in WP:PROSELINE. Nevertheless, I did undertake some copy editing/combining to address your concern. I'll give the article a fresh read-through in the morning as well. If there is anything else that needs to be done, feel free to let me know. Cbl62 (talk) 06:19, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cbl62, I looked through it again and I thought this version was much better, especially the lead. I decided to WP:BEBOLD and edit the lead, and essentially attempted to combine this version and the old version (so that the lead would have both a narrative of his career like in your new version, and highlights at the beginning like in your old version). Aside from the lead, I re-organized the first half of the early years section. And lastly, I also combined some of the shorter paragraphs in other sections, but not all of them. I'm content to pass this version, as I think it shows what I had in mind towards addressing the key concerns. I imagine you might want some things a different way, but of course, you're welcome to continue to edit things or go back to the way some things were before. And overall, good work! Sportsfan77777 (talk) 01:56, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Sportsfan. Cbl62 (talk) 02:02, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]