Talk:Dan Oates

Expand article ASAP

The Movie Massacre has catapulted Chief Oates to the national spotlight. It is essential that we provide our readers with complete information. I saw his press conference this eve on Fox News. He nearly broke down. He is a great American.– Lionel ^(talk) 04:27, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Lionelt, do you have highbeam? I'm going to put an in-use template on this while I wikify it, perhaps you can collect some sources and list them here while I do that. I'll try to be done fast. Ryan Vesey Review me! 04:46, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Okay, so there is massive close paraphrasing and copyvio of this and I can't find where it was introduced. Should we just stubify this article and start from scratch? Ryan Vesey Review me! 04:56, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

I just restored the last good version. I'm going to pull up highbeam and collect a bunch of sources, then we can start on improvements. Ryan Vesey Review me! 04:59, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Well... I wasn't actually going to edit myself... I was going to... well, you know... supervise. – Lionel ^(talk) 05:51, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

But seriously, I've been searching for photos--didn't find anything free. Gonna have to wait for someone with a cellphone to upload under creative commons...– Lionel ^(talk) 06:10, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Wiki-ny-2007 just uploaded a pic from Voice of America! Absolutely brilliant! – Lionel ^(talk) 08:10, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Yep, I'm considering sending out messages to people in Category:Wikipedians in Denver, Colorado. I probably won't be able to do much more tonight. I'm practically dying here, he has a 21 year career with NYPD and I've given him 3 sentences in that regard. the LIU link has some more information. It actually appears that he didn't end his career as head of intelligence. I'll try to pick this up, and send some messages, tomorrow morning. It would be great if you could drop a couple more notes to get some help on this. The old version (copyvio and all) had over 3000 views yesterday. Ryan Vesey Review me! 06:18, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Highbeam

1. FBI -- the same old arrogance] The Herald News (2001) mentions career with NYPD
2. No surge in police referrals to ICE Border law that took effect in May has had little impact, cops say.(News) Rocky Mountain News (2006)
3. Advice to Aurora police chief: Stop strong-arming.(News)(Column) (Trashy opinion laden column)
4. 'Feds' in the firing line after failing their greatest test Scotland on Sunday (2001) Oates head of intelligence for NYPD  Done
5. Giuliani livid with FBI Police chiefs across nation echo mayor's complaints, say secrecy thwarts battle against terrorism Chicago Sun-Times (2001)

Other sources

1. Former colleagues: Ex-Ann Arbor police chief Dan Oates 'well prepared' for crisis like Colorado shooting annarbor.com  Done
2. NATION: Former Ann Arbor police chief deals with Aurora tragedy This seems like a good article, I don't have time to look through it all right now. Ryan Vesey Review me! 15:14, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
3. Colorado shooting puts police chief in spotlight the eagle.com

DYK

Nominated at Template:Did you know nominations/Dan Oates. Ryan Vesey Review me! 05:13, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Things to include

I can't continue editing tonight, so I'm dropping two things here that might be used to improve the article. Hopefully another editor can examine them and see what they think. First, Oates noted that his daughter was at a midnight premiere of the show (not the Century Theatres one). Second, Oates noted his pride in the department for noticing a small detail that stood out to make Holmes look different from other SWAT members. Both of these are per this HUFFPO] source. Ryan Vesey Review me! 05:41, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Also, media outlets have started commenting about his empathy. That would be a nice touch for the article. – Lionel ^(talk) 00:21, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Causation vs correlation

I see this page has been given priority treatment over at dyk; it seems to be making some bold/absurd claims (for background see causation, correlation, correlation does not imply causation): "he reduced the violent crime rate by 24%" and "he reduced the crime rate by 30%" - these assertions are entirely unverifiable and should be amended/removed, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 23:10, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Based on the envy expressed in your statement, I'm not even going to assume good faith. But I will say this: the assertions in this article are supported by the citations. Don't even think about removing sourced content. – Lionel ^(talk) 23:31, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Do note that I modified them slightly. Maculosae was correct that the sources were slightly misrepresented. I wrote it as if he reduced them when the sources said he oversaw or helped the reduction. Ryan Vesey Review me! 23:42, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Ryan; it was Lionel's plug over on the dyk page that made me stop by again (no envy, just a WP:BIAS concern); sorry if I was a little brusque above - the cum hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy is a common one and gets my goat, Maculosae tegmine lyncis (talk) 23:51, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Peer review

I was asked by Ryan Vesey to do a peer review to help get the article ready for a GA review. My comments here will be consistent with the GA Criteria.

The lead has a confusing sentence - Can you clarify his year of birth? Better to have his Date of Birth but at least nail down the year?

Personal Life - I think you need to clarify the ages of his daughters or leave the ages out.

Career - It says "While covering 'courts'...." Can you define what "courts" he was covering? Juvenile, civil, criminal?

• "He worked his way up the ladder...." Not good to use English idioms that non-English speakers won't always understand. It also isn't very "encyclopedic" language.
• "He was also responsible for security. He arranged security for the Millennium Summit and was also in charge of U.S. presidential security arrangements." Can these two sentences be combined into one?
• The reference to Brent J. Brents might be a bit too specific. Perhaps make it more general since most people won't know who the guy is and (I assume) there isn't an article on him.
• You have some of what he did in the lead up to the current shooting situation and one line about the fact that he's teaching a course on Constitutional Law. Is there anything else that he did or is currently doing? Initiatives he's enacted or is working on? It's not good to have a one-sentence paragraph, they're frowned upon in the MOS.

Theatre shooting - These sentences seem a bit disjointed: "Oates was the chief of police in Aurora at the time of a shooting at the midnight showing of The Dark Knight Rises.[10] In a remark on the booby traps in the suspect's apartment, Oates stated that the apartment was rigged to "to kill whoever entered it".[10] He expanded on this by saying "It was going to be a police officer...We sure as hell are angry"." We start with the general fact that he was the police chief at the time of the shooting and then go directly into the booby traps in his apartment. Is there anything to transition between to two sentences? Perhaps another quote would be good, or combining the two paragraphs into one with the fatigue sentence coming between the first and second sentences in the initail paragraph. Not sure just thinking out loud.

• It seems like there should be more in this section. It's the primary reason he's notable - at this point. Has he given more interviews or said more about his department? It's a tight line to walk I understand, because this isn't an article about the shooting, it's an article about him. Perhaps if there are any comments about the job he's done thus far, that would be good information to put in here.

References - Make sure each reference has link, title, and accessdate as a minimum.

Overall - Nice article, clean and tight. I think more could be added at certain points if the information is out there. Is there a pic of the Aurora police station? I don't think this is too far from GA readiness. Let me know if you have anything specific you'd like me address that isn't mentioned in this review. I won't be watching this page so please drop a line on my talk page. Thanks H1nkles (talk) _{citius altius fortius} 22:50, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

• Couldn't find a pic of Aurora PD. Just dumb luck we got Ann Arbor PD.– Lionel ^(talk) 05:38, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Video clip?

With the right text in the article, we could just get 5 to 10 sec of video of Oates in the article per WP:NFCC/Fair use. The article text would have to specifically reference the clip. For example if we describe Oates' declaration "We will convict him" and media reaction to his determination, we could add a clip of the interview to support critical commentary. – Lionel ^(talk) 05:36, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Would a video clip of Oates breaking down be preferable? A we will convict him clip may not meet criteria #8 (contextual significance) because the video may not give the reader an understanding that is different from reading the article. It is difficult to describe Oates breaking down, in fact, we haven't even mentioned it. In either case, it would probably be a good idea to run the clip by WP:MCQ prior to uploading it. Ryan Vesey Review me! 05:56, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

External links modified

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• Added archive https://archive.is/20130116035445/http://www.9news.com/video/1744328128001/1/WATCH-Aurora-PD-Chief-Dan-Oates-talks-about-the-shooting to http://www.9news.com/video/1744328128001/1/WATCH-Aurora-PD-Chief-Dan-Oates-talks-about-the-shooting

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