Talk:Dalit Christian

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What is this "dalit" "christian"?

Dalit is one of the four varnas from the hindu caste system. Since when did christianity adopt the hindu caste system?

This seems like an artificial creation by a few christian orgs in india just to get reservations for jobs. I don't think the vatican or protestant sects outside india have ever heard of the caste system being a part of christianity. Please stop the lying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.52.127.132 (talk) 12:01, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bias

This article seems to be written in a very biased fashion. Someone with more knowledge of the subject than I have and with less bias than the author should edit it. JediScougale (talk) 01:06, 26 November 2008 (UTC) (talk) 01:05, 26 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have added the NPOV template to flag this article. While my knowledge of the subject is lacking, I agree that it is written in POV terms, using only a single source, and is quite redundant besides. I would do this myself, but I really do not feel qualified to write on this topic. --kajerm^talk 13:40, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Grammar

Just want to let anybody who cares know that all I've done is touch up the grammar. I've left the topic itself alone. --Daydreamer302000 (talk) 12:17, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Modern Challenges

The site referred to as resource is only similar to a Blog. It is not a recognised or accredited news source. I think some propaganda initiative is evident here. I propose to edit away this section. Please discuss. Goodhindu (talk) 04:11, 15 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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Abhishek0831996 edits

I reverted those edits because you made a false edit summery, they re[resented the sources faithfully and you edits just removed information that was unfavrable to those that want to maintain the cast system. Hardyplants (talk) 19:02, 20 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong. I was indeed fixing the misrepresentation you are doing with this source, by hyping Protestant opposition to caste system in your edits as more of a general stance when they appear to have worked for a caste-less Christian society, than overall caste-less society. This is all not entirely accurate as detailed in my edit which you removed without explanation.

You misrepresented this source by ignoring the paragraph "dalits also face discrimination from those regarded as upper caste Christians".

You are misrepresenting this source which says:

"Today no Indian Christian thinker would approve or even speak of tolerating the caste reality. There are many, however, who live in it."

But you are presenting it as:

"No Christian thinker in India now accepts the cast system and Dalit Christians have either rejected their Dalit roots and see themselves as new creations in the language of the New Testament; or they maintain their Dalit roots in a wish to stand in solidarity with other Dalits, no matter their religion, to claim recognition and equal dignity in society."

Scroll.in is an unreliable source, per WP:RSN,[1] yet you used it.[2]

What "South Asia State of Minorities Report 2020" has to do with this subject "Dalit Christian" in hand which you added here?

I left a larger note on your talk page. Abhishek0831996 (talk) 17:15, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Context matters, note the flow of the text is within the different branches of the Christians communities: "The different branches of Christianity in India still engage in these societal practices with regards to the caste system, along with all its customs and norms, to varying degrees depending on the particular sect. Within the three major Christian branches in India, there were historically and are currently different levels of caste acceptance. The Protestant churches have most consistently repudiated the caste system, rejecting it as a Hindu construct, and have made the greatest attempt to establish a caste-less community. The Roman Catholic Church is said to sometimes develop a more culturally consistent view, treating the caste system as part of the Indian social structure and, for much of its history in India; similarly, the Syrian Orthodox Churches have sometimes responded in like fashion, except it has tended to collectively act as one caste within the caste system instead of maintaining different castes within their churches." Hardyplants (talk) 18:02, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Go back and read the texts again that is covered abundantly already. see: "Dalit Christians have frequently criticized the Church for not just tolerating but hiding the discriminatory practices among Dalit Christians. In the 1990s there were protests against those Christian organizations that still practiced some form of the caste system and for discrimination in leadership positions; Dalits saw those practices as contrary to Jesus's egalitarianism. In 2020 The National Council of Dalit Christians (NCDC) appealed to the catholic church, the apostolic nuncio and the Pope "...to curb visible and invisible untouchability practices" that exist in selection of Bishops." and No Christian thinker in India now accepts the cast system and Dalit Christians have either rejected their Dalit roots and see themselves as new creations in the language of the New Testament; or they maintain their Dalit roots in a wish to stand in solidarity with other Dalits, no matter their religion, to claim recognition and equal dignity in society.^[1] and "Even so many are still trapped in the cast system.^[1] Hindus still see Dalit Christians as Dalits and treat them as such with violence and discrimination, the state also discriminates against them by excluding them from the reservation program, and those Christians that think of themselves as upper cast discriminate against Dalit Christians within the churches.^[2]" (talk) 17:54, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did you not see this text? "Even so many are still trapped in the cast system.^[1] Hindus still see Dalit Christians as Dalits and treat them as such with violence and discrimination, the state also discriminates against them by excluding them from the reservation program, and those Christians that think of themselves as upper cast discriminate against Dalit Christians within the churches.^[2] Hardyplants (talk) 18:31, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have no problem removing that source if it has been found wanting but in this case the information is true. Hardyplants (talk)

This point outs the issues facing this group of people: "The South Asia State of Minorities Report 2020 has found that since the BJP (the Indian people's party) has returned to political power in May 0f 2018 “Hate crimes against minorities have seen a spike – taking the form of mob lynching and vigilante violence against Muslims, Christians, and Dalits. BJP also strengthened and expanded a series of discriminatory laws and measures that target religious minorities. These include anti-conversion laws, blamed by human rights groups for empowering Hindutva groups to conduct campaigns of harassment, social exclusion and violence against Christians, Muslims, and other religious minorities across the country’.60 Laws ostensibly meant for the protection of cows continue to provide institutional backing for similar campaigns against Muslims and Dalits.” Hardyplants (talk) 17:54, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

~~Looking over your edit history it is clear that you are the one that is pushing a POV, a nationalistic Hindu one.~~ I have included all those points in the page that you say I have left out. If Scroll I no good I have no problem leaving that out. The other sources are good but you do not like them because they do not show a favorable light on the cast systems and Indian society. Hardyplants (talk) 18:02, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see if you have addressed any of the points raised above, regarding your misrepresentation of sources and adding reports that have nothing to do with this subject. Adding a one-sided report without mentioning the other side from the unrelated subject in question is WP:DE. Wareon (talk) 03:50, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Casting aspersions by users above are not helpful. If scroll.in is not reliable we should take it WP:RSN. Otherwise, Abhishek0831996 do you have a better wording of the content Hardyplants was inserting? These two sources look reliable.VR _talk 20:01, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

None mentions "Dalit Christian" thus both are wholly irrelevant for this article. Wareon (talk) 03:50, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ ^a ^b ^c Leonard Fernando; G. Gispert-Sauch (2004). Christianity in India: Two Thousand Years of Faith. Penguin Books India. pp. 188–. ISBN 978-0-670-05769-6.
^ ^a ^b Rowena Robinson; Joseph Marianus Kujur (17 August 2010). Margins of Faith: Dalit and Tribal Christianity in India. SAGE Publications. pp. 11–. ISBN 978-81-321-0604-3.

[FernandoGispert-Sauch2004-1] Leonard Fernando; G. Gispert-Sauch (2004). Christianity in India: Two Thousand Years of Faith. Penguin Books India. pp. 188–. ISBN 978-0-670-05769-6.

[RobinsonKujur2010-2] Rowena Robinson; Joseph Marianus Kujur (17 August 2010). Margins of Faith: Dalit and Tribal Christianity in India. SAGE Publications. pp. 11–. ISBN 978-81-321-0604-3.

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