Talk:Dakelh

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 8 September 2020 and 18 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jshen246.

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Comments

I've changed the bit about the pronounciation of Dakelh so that it is (a) in IPA and (b) correct. I don't know where the idea came from that Dakelh begins with a /k/. It doesn't. It begins with a voiceless lenis unaspirated alveolar stop, which to English speakers sounds like a /d/. (As to my authority for this, I am a professional linguist who has studied Carrier since 1992 and speak the language (with less than native fluency, of course)).

It's possible that there may be controversy over the use of the terms "band" and "First Nation". What I've done is to use "First Nation" in the names of bands if they use it themselves, but to use only "band" as the name of the unit. The reason is simple: in Canada "band" is a well-defined technical term, the unit of Indian government under the Indian Act. "First Nation" appears in the names of some bands, but it does not have the meaning of "band" in and of itself. It is not meaningful to say "Under the Indian Act, a First Nation is governed by a chief and a minimum of two councillors", whereas this is true of a "band". On the other hand, it is common to refer to things like "the Carrier First Nation". This is a reference to an ethnic group, not a political unit or (as usually used) even a linguistic unit.

One small point. I changed "an indigenous..." to "the indigenous..." because, in that particular area, Carrier people are the unique indigenous group. There is overlap in some border areas, but it is not an area in which multiple indigenous peoples are interspersed. Bill 16:24, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

Merge Carrier Indians into this article?

I think it makes sense. Any objections? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.232.114.151 (talk • contribs) 08:40, 23 September 2006‎ (UTC)

Name "Carrier"

The name "Carrier" may not be a translation but a European description of an observed custom according to some reports. In exploring BC First Nations and particularly the Carrier First Nations I have encountered an author/teacher and anthropologist Alan D. McMillan who focuses primarily on BC First Nations. He teaches anthropology at Douglas Collage in New Westminster BC. 204.244.212.151 (talk) 16:35, 16 June 2010 (UTC)He states the name "Carrier" is a European name given because of the custom for widows to carry their husband’s bones in baskets or bundles for up to 3 years to demonstrate a suitable period of mourning. In this culture it is now common to have the headstone for a deceased person set at the home of the family for a year or more as a sign of respect and while preparing for a feast to celebrate the life of the deceased person.

He's pretty definitely wrong since we know that Europeans encountered the Sekani before they encountered the Carrier and learned of the Carrier from them and that the Sekani name for the Carrier means "people who carry something on their backs".Bill (talk) 03:19, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Table of Bands

I've run into a problem adding translations to the table of bands. The first order problem is that the band names are not necessarily Carrier, e.g. "Red Bluff", and so no translation is needed. The second order problem is that even when the English name contains a Carrier word or an anglicisation of a Carrier word, that isn't necessarily what the people call themselves in Carrier. For example, "Cheslatta" is from Carrier Tsetl'adak "rock summit", the name of one village, but in Carrier Cheslatta people actually call themselves Nyan Whut'en "people of the far side of the lake". So I guess there should be columns for the English name of the band, the Carrier name, and the translation of the Carrier name, but that leaves the question of what to do about those English names that are based on Carrier words that are not the Carrier name for the band. Should that be yet another column, or be put somewhere else?Bill (talk) 03:27, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Requested Move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:41, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

---

Carrier people → Dakelh – Dakelh was the original title here, as created by User:Billposer who is the pre-eminent scholar in this particular field. The page was moved without discussion on June 28, 2011 by User:Kwamikagami. From what I understand of the field, User:Billposer chose the name Dakelh over Carrier people for various reasons, one of them being that "Dakelh" is accepted by some groups who do not use term "Carrier" and according to the new revisions to MOS, style adopted by the original/principal author of an article should be what is respected. That this was moved without discussion despite being a controversial change, and that this same move was part of a pattern of moving to allegedly "most common" names (that aren't, actually) means that reversion to the original title is proper and should be respected. Skookum1 (talk) 18:24, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

• Support/Restore - too late for WP:BRD, but still no reason why the academic name shouldn't be used. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:59, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
• Comment: is there any evidence that the proposed title is more commonly used than the current one? Hot Stop 16:31, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
• Support The Dakelh better than the Carrier. "2.18. Carrier: Dakelh /dakeɬ/ is the name that Carrier people use for themselves and also for their language. The name "Carrier" is the English translation of the Sekani name for the Carrier. The Northwest Company men who first made contact with Carrier people came from across the Rockies and passed through Sekani territory before reaching Carrier territory. Since they learned about Carrier people from the Sekani, they used the Sekani name translated into their own language. In French, Carrier people are referred to as les Porteurs, and the language as la langue des Porteurs. In older literature, and occasionally still today, one sees Taculli, as well as a number of variant spellings, as a name for both the people and the language. This is a garbled version of Dakelh. The term Carrier has been used both as the name for Carrier in the narrow sense and for Carrier together with BabineWitsuwit'en, which is sometimes called Northern Carrier. Preferred linguistic usage is now to restrict Carrier to Carrier in the narrow sense." (The Names of the First Nations Languages of British Columbia by William J. Pose) --Kmoksy (talk) 10:08, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Dakelh/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Well-written, a bit dry. May need revision/editing (?) but looks good. A map would probably be useful because of the complexity of hte subgroups and their very geographic nature. Skookum1 - 6 May 06

Last edited at 18:43, 3 March 2014 (UTC). Substituted at 12:41, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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