Talk:Dōjima Rice Exchange

Foundation

I assume few people actually browse these pages, but from several sources i have been working with, i got the impression that the DRE was officially formed in 1730 when a decree granted the "exchange" status. --Ikajo 00:50, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Interesting.. I tried to grab that article from the Journal of Banking and Finance, but it would seem my school doesn't include that volume or that issue in its subscription - I don't suppose there's any way you could send me a PDF of it? Since all I have (more or less) is general History of Japan survey texts, that's all I could base this article on; if you have more details, please do add them. Thank you. LordAmeth 13:41, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Two thing on this page seemed very strange to me. First, it said because of poor harvests, rice prices were low. In every modern futures market, poor harvests cause the price to GO UP because the commodity in question is in short supply. Later in the article, it says much the same thing - that the brokers held large quantities of rice OFF the market in storage, which again should cause the price to GO UP, not down. I wonder if the person who wrote this page misunderstood their sources? Kevinbertsch (talk) 05:02, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I second your first point. It would seem very odd that rice prices were low after a bad harvest. As to your second point it might be possible that hoarding rice kept the dealers buying price low, and the selling price high. Since the Samurai were paid in rice (according to this article - I have no knowledge on the subject) perhaps the complaint referred to the dealers' buying price / Samurai selling price of rice. It is also possible that public perception of what the exchange was doing was at odds to what they were truly doing.

Clarification is certainly needed. 62.140.194.189 (talk) 09:26, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

• I agree with both of the forementioned commentors. That is why I actually came to this page, to say that there needs to be clarification with that comment because, restraining availability of a foodstuff(commodity) already in short supply would cause the price of it to go up significantly if not spike, based on supply-and-demand. As is pointed in the subject article, riots occurred as the result. If that is the case, people would resort to riots if there is either a scarcity (as the article points out to the extent of starvation) and people couldn't obtain food, or if the price hit such a peak that most could not afford to buy it, essentially with the same results. In either case, it appears that the person who either wrote the article or transcribed it, did not fully understand the behaviors being relayed and this needs clarification. Stevenmitchell (talk) 23:27, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

• According to "A History of Japan: 1615 - 1867" by Sir George Baily Sansom, prices in the early 1700s rose to high levels due to poor harvests. However, in 1730 - 1731, good harvests caused the rice / coin exchange rate to plummeted, falling to about 25% of the previous exchange rate. This helped consumers from a buying rice for food perspective, but hurt everyone who was paid with rice (feudal lords, military personnel, etc) as they were accustomed to exchanging it for currency. The next year rice crops were devastated by pests, which led to riots. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.2.210.14 (talk) 15:45, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I'm questioning the source here that claims speculators putting rice in warehouses would decrease the price, this would reduce the supply of rice and should lead to an increase in the price, furthermore, poor harvests should decrease supply and increase the price, just as today when there are bad harvests in the USA, wheat prices have risen, some serious checks need to be done here, there are probably better reasons, maybe the trade issues? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.79.118 (talk) 10:59, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Comment on the article

Good morning. You wrote the following:

"The Dōjima Rice Exchange (堂島米市場, Dōjima kome ichiba, 堂島米会所, Dōjima kome kaisho), located in Osaka, was the center of Japan's system of rice brokers, which developed independently and privately in the Edo period and would be seen as the forerunners to a modern banking system. "

However, this is not true. The modern banking system originated much earlier in Florence, Italy, in the Renaissance period (14th Century).

It would be more accurate for you to write the following:

"The Dōjima Rice Exchange (堂島米市場, Dōjima kome ichiba, 堂島米会所, Dōjima kome kaisho), located in Osaka, was the center of Japan's system of rice brokers, which developed independently and privately in the Edo period and would be seen as the forerunners of derivatives and futures trading in the modern banking system. "

Reference: Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banking " The oldest bank still in existence is Monte dei Paschi di Siena, headquartered in Siena, Italy, which has been operating continuously since 1472.[1] It is followed by Berenberg Bank of Hamburg (1590)[2] and Sveriges Riksbank of Sweden (1668).

    Banking in its modern sense evolved in rich cities of Renaissance Italy, such as Florence, Venice and Genoa. In the history of banking, a number of banking dynasties—among them notably Medici,[3] Fugger,[4] Welser,[5] Berenberg,[6] Baring[7] and Rothschild[8]—have played a central role over many centuries. "

Thank you, Sincerely, Thomas Edward Kovarik, M.S. Consultant, US Bank — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.135.241.45 (talk)

Looking for early rice price graphs

I'm looking for images of early rice price graphs in 1700s Japan. If somebody has any information about them please leave a note here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.22.237.111 (talk) 03:32, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

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