Talk:Cumberland, Ottawa

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Proposed page move

As per WP:CANSTYLE#Neighbourhoods, this article should be moved to Cumberland, Ottawa. In accordance with the guideline, however, the move is first being raised on the talk page. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:05, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

The reason for (community) is to disambiguate between the township of Cumberland, the city of Cumberland, and this article because they're all essentially the same region. The reason for Ottawa, Ontario is because there's more than one city named Ottawa, and more than one Cumberland, Ontario. (see Ottawa (disambiguation)) None of the other articles (Gloucester, Ontario, Orléans, Ontario, Leitrim, Ontario, etc.) are titled Name+Ottawa, so unless the issue is raised there as well, I don't see a reason to change the name. - Io Katai (talk) 19:35, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

There would be no reason for the word "community" if this article (the village) is at Cumberland, Ottawa, while the others (which are now merged, by the way, because they dealt with the exact same thing) on the larger Cumberland area are at Cumberland, Ontario. Two different titles, so no need for additional disambiguation as per WP:DAB. Further, using a descriptor like (community) is not a form of disambiguation contemplated by WP:CANSTYLE, the goal of which is to standardize neighbourhood article titles in Canada. As for the other articles that you have mentioned ((Gloucester, Ontario, Orléans, Ontario, Leitrim, Ontario), they are a completely different kettle of fish, similar to Cumberland, Ontario but not this article, and are treated differently under the guideline. Skeezix1000 (talk) 21:48, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

there's something wrong with the description in the lead: how can a village be part of a city? is it maybe part of National Capital Region (Canada) instead? --Qyd (talk) 23:18, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Since amalgamation, Ottawa contains a large rural swath (a former ring of townships), with many settlements that are commonly referred to as villages. And it is confusing in this case because the village and its former township (which are separate entities) both share the same name. And they are both now part of Ottawa. Hope that helps. Skeezix1000 (talk) 11:40, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

It's not inaccurate. Cumberland used to be independant from Ottawa, owing to its name "Cumberland village", which is still a popular term used today. But more precisely, the term 'village' can be used to refer to an area within a larger municipality (in this case, Ottawa is a municipality) See the article Village#North America: incorporated village for more details. - Io Katai (talk) 04:40, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I also fail to see how the articles Gloucester, Ontario, Orléans, Ontario, Leitrim, Ontario, and the rest of Ottawa's communities are any different from this one? They include the same information, but are suffixed with Ontario instead. Cumberland is also recognized as a distinct and valid municipal address by Canada Post. Why not keep consistency and move the disambiguation page to Cumberland, Ontario (disambiguation) and move this article to Cumberland, Ontario, as the factual name for the other one is Cumberland Beach, Simcoe County (Google maps and Canada Post verify this). - Io Katai (talk) 05:01, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

You are correct. Cumberland is recognised as a distinct and valid municipal address by Canada Post. But not this Cuumberland. As you know, the City of Ottawa contains two entities with the same name "Cumberland": there is the former township/city of Cumberland (population of approx. 60,000), and the village of Cumberland (population of approx. 2500). The township/city, which was once an autonomous municipality, is a distinct and valid postal address, and accordingly its article is already at Cumberland, Ontario (just like Leitrim, Gloucester, etc.). The village, which happens to be located within the former township/city, has never been an autonomous municipality and is not a separate postal location (in fact, it never needed to be, as letters would have already been addressed to Cumberland, due to the fact that it was located in the township/city with the same name). The village can't be at Cumberland, Ontario (that title is already taken by the township/city), and according to the guideline at WP:CANSTYLE, it should be titled Cumberland, Ottawa. The current title, Cumberland, Ottawa, Ontario (community), is an inappropriate and unnecessary form of disambiguation.

If you would like, there can be a DAB page at Cumberland, Ontario (disambiguation), and I will create one. However, the Cumberland in Simcoe County would (once an article is created) be at Cumberland, Severn (because we disambiguate using the municipality, not the upper-tier municipality).

I hope that all makes sense. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 11:58, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Anyhow, under a day ago the article Cumberland, Ontario was just a disambiguation page, but I see you merged the other two articles, which is probably for the best. In this case, I'll agree to displacing this article to Cumberland, Ottawa, however the other Cumberland should be rightfully Cumberland Beach, Severn, or even Cumberland Beach, Ontario (not Cumberland, Severn) as that's the real name of the place. I verified the Township of Severn's website just to make sure, along with Google Maps and Canada Post. - Io Katai (talk) 19:29, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

It may very well be Cumberland Beach. I am just going on the content of the Severn article, and the fact that the Cumberland Ontario DAB page listed it as Cumberland. But absent any actual article on it, I'm not too concerned. Skeezix1000 (talk) 20:09, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Done. --Skeezix1000 (talk) 13:49, 23 March 2008 (UTC)