Talk:Cultural impact of Christina Aguilera

List of artists influenced by Aguilera

There was an article titled "List of artists influenced by Christina Aguilera" once, but it was deleted. However, it's still available on another site (link below). There is a HUGE section dedicated to musicians and non-musicians inspired/influenced by Christina. I believe some of them should be listed here. The article — https://ghostarchive.org/archive/l1MRc. AngelOfDestiny (talk) 17:32, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

If you can find some of the original sources, feel free to add back what you can. Maxwell King¹²³³²¹ 12:26, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

I will but please, help me a bit too :) Because, as you can see, the list of musicans inspired by Aguilera, is very long. AngelOfDestiny (talk) 15:07, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

I will definitely. I'm just trying to get through the rest of the article first but I will get to that section soon lol. Maxwell King¹²³³²¹ 22:16, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

How to protect the article?

How to protect the article? Haters are already trying to erase Aguilera's legacy and impact and try to nominate the article for deletion — which is unfair. AngelOfDestiny (talk) 13:30, 7 October 2024 (UTC)

I don't quite understand it either because this page is pretty unbiased. Some of it I think can be made more neutral but I will work on that over the next little while. I think the page got a lot of interactions on Twitter so expect some vandals. If we get more we can take it to WP:PROTECT.

I do think perhaps Patti Labelle as an "inspired" person could be moved down to where we've mentioned Celine, Whitney, Etta, etc. Also I feel that we should keep WP:FANCRUFT in mind as we add more to this article. Otherwise thank you for all your help on this page! Maxwell Smart¹²³³²¹ 10:37, 8 October 2024 (UTC)

Fancruft

@AlexisEditor: people keep WP:FANCRUFT in mind as you edit. As per WP:NOTEVERYTHING "an article should not be a complete presentation of all possible details, but a summary of accepted knowledge regarding its subject". We do not need to mention EACH artist who has cited Aguilera as as an influence multiple times just one mention in the list of artists is fine. Also a "Acclaim from Legends" is "FANCRUFT" as well and not encyclopaedic either. Maxwell Smart¹²³³²¹ 22:26, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Is it really FANCRUFT, though? I understand that the phrase "acclaim from music legends" might be problematic, but I don't see how the extensive opinions of journalists on Christina presented in this article like those of Jeremy Helligar or Wanna Thompson should be considered any more acceptable than those of established, professional singers like Whitney Houston and Celine Dion, who are integral to the music industry and arguably more knowledgeable about artistic and vocal legacy. I added that section because it is a huge part of Christina's cultural impact. There is no additional input or opinions from an author either, it's basically just a presentation of relevant quotes to the subject matter. Isn't that per definition encyclopaedic? But if you believe that puts the article in danger I'll leave it. AlexisEditor (talk) 01:54, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

There was a lot of good stuff you added I'm gonna go through it later and try to rework some of it back in + more sources are always helpful. The only thing is repeating a lot of the names of artists which makes the section repetitive and most likely to be used against the article. Also no other artist has an "acclaim from music legends" section and it would be despised upon, as "music legends" is such an ambiguous term. Who is to determine who or who isn't a "music legend"? Unless the source specifically states that "Aguilera has been praised by 'music legends' [so and so]" then that would be fine to insert as a quote somewhere. Maxwell Smart¹²³³²¹ 05:18, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Yea I definitely get that, although I have to say I perceived "The Impact of Stripped" section as a sub-point or elaboration of the influence list. Wouldn't that work like that? Since you already referenced Sabrina, Demi, and Selena, I thought it would make sense to include other names as well to truly emphasize the impact of Stripped. I thought that was the point. Otherwise, dedicating an entire section to the album with just those three names doesn’t seem worth it. I'd definitely highlight what Sam Smith and Anne Marie had to say there. It's much more relevant to the overall cultural impact of Christina.

Demi and Selena were directly mentioned because the sources mentioned specific work from them that was inspired. Sabrina lists Christina as her biggest influence so what she said was worth mentioned. Sam Smith was just covering Beautiful (mentioned in cover section) and Anne Marie was just saying it was a good album so they aren't really worth mentioning AGAIN in that section compared to the other three and others mentioned. Maxwell Smart¹²³³²¹ 12:01, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Sam Smith was most definitely not just covering the song. He literally states "Stripped came out when I was 10 years old. That album changed my life" - He came out at 10. He also says that "[Beautiful] continues to inspire [him] with its important message to never stop celebrating who you are". Both quotes are much more relevant than what Selena said about the nude album cover. Same with Anne Marie. She said "Music and lyrics really helped me out—Christina Aguilera's words, that entire Stripped album was so powerful for young women. It taught me so much" That's not just saying it's a good album. It indicates huge impact on her life, it goes beyond just being a musical muse. And again it's much more relevant to the subject than what Selena said... AlexisEditor (talk) 12:19, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Regarding the whole music legends thing, you are absolutely right about the terminology of that, but the content of that section itself was not ambiguous. It was factual and inspired by everything above the influence list of this article. Again, why are we presenting so many quotes of countless magazines when there are those of established industry people? They are much more relevant. Perhaps consider fusing that section including both critics and musicians under "Media and Industry Recognition" or "Critical Reception and Industry Recognition". Something like that. That would be neutral and factual. I was going to include a similar entry on Mariah and Beyonce.

A lot of other cultural impact pages for artists have mentions from "bigger" artists and how they have praised the artist (see Taylor Swift and Harry Styles). We don't need to mention every single one; just the ones most important to Aguilera and her life aka Whitney, Etta, Celine and Patti Labelle. Maxwell Smart¹²³³²¹ 12:01, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

Understandable, although I never intended to mention every single big artist who praised her. Obviously that would be ridiculous. It doesn't really make much of a difference if it's 4 bigger artists or 7 on the article, but it does make a difference in impression, further highlighting the impact of Christina which is ultimately the subject of the article. AlexisEditor (talk) 12:33, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

I would also advise you to keep the text I wrote under the influence list, because Etta and Celine do not fit in there at all as they never mention Christina as a creative inspiration. If anything those quotes would fall under "Industry Recognition". I restructured that particular text with quotes from Whitney, Patti LaBelle and Patti Smith, directly indicating they were influenced by Christina. It's much more logical and comprehensive that way. AlexisEditor (talk) 11:42, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

I agree with this - how does the subheading "influence and recognition" work? That way we're listing the artists + also including the recognition from the quote unquote legend artists. Maxwell Smart¹²³³²¹ 12:01, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

It's better but it's still under "Creative Inspiration" which is technically false. Fusing influence and recognition like that also makes the influence list ambiguous, implying that there are quotes in there for recognition. I'd rename "Creative Inspiration" as "Creative Inspiration and Recognition" or something like that, and add 2 sub-points, 1) "Influence" for the list and 2) "Recognition" for the other quotes. AlexisEditor (talk) 12:49, 12 October 2024 (UTC)

To avoid anymore mixups, I have created a new section "Recognition" under the "Fame and stardom" section. We will leave "Creative inspiration" AS what it is. This is more important to her cultural page than "Recognition". I don't think the "Recognition" stuff is FANCRUFT however it does seem to be something a fan would note but I think it is still worth keeping on the page in one form or another. We don't need to add lots of quotes to back it up, just sourcing it is fine. Otherwise the section is gonna be too big and start pushing towards FANCRUFT. Maxwell Smart¹²³³²¹ 03:13, 13 October 2024 (UTC)

That's a good solution. But your concern about the recognition section possibly being pushed towards FANCRUFT is still not reasonable. It's not about what you think. I'm not sure why you're worried about that. It's a simple presentation of factual quotes on the subject. Everything is backed up. And it all serves the purpose of the article. There is no rule on how big a section is allowed to be. Even so, it wasn't big. If anything, it is way more questionable that a section is lacking sufficient evidence to support the article's goal. The creative inspiration section is definitely more important, but then you could also argue that the recognition section is more important than most of the other sections in this article. However, I do agree that sourcing is also fine. You can keep the text itself very minimal, if it bothers you so much. In that case, I'd just advise you to be more careful in highlighting the relevant parts of the quotes from the artists you've chosen and actually back up the section by sourcing other artists. AlexisEditor (talk) 13:51, 13 October 2024 (UTC)