Talk:Corsage (film)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Editor with axe to grind?

It seems like this page is being hit up by Zoolver, the same editor who did the IMDb trivia page, as detailed here: https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movies/tv-movie-news/corsage-movie-hater-imdb-sabotage-oscar-chances-vicky-krieps-metoo-1234661085/

I think any balanced page should at least mention the allegations against Teichtmeister, but there does need to be balance - and I don't think that balance is currently being hit. 92.207.108.31 (talk) 20:23, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

That Rolling Stone article is NOT saying Zoolver is the editor of the IMDb trivia page, just that much of the phrasing in this “trivia” matches wording on the Wikipedia page for Corsage, which doesn't rule out the possibility that the IMDb contributor simply copied Wikipedia (and Zoolver is under no obligation to confirm or deny it). (Also, what's the basis to assume those trivia entries throwing oblique shades at the movie and the one about the allegations were submitted by the same user?) Your assertion that the Wikipedia article is "hit up" by an "editor with axe to grind" strikes me as WP:ASPERSIONS. If there is a neutrality issue present in the article, point it out or fix it. Otherwise it doesn't matter what editors of an article think about its subject. Nardog (talk) 03:56, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Box office

Comparing the box office gross and the production budget for this kind of movie makes no sense. Art-house films in Europe are financed through subsidies, tax cuts, and distribution deals, so much of the spend is recouped before release, and if they flop, it's the local distributors who suffer the loss, not the producers. They are apples and oranges.

You may say it underperformed, but you still need a source for that, and it shouldn't be difficult to find one if it's so "obvious". Just don't bring up the budget unless the source does, or it would be WP:SYNTH. Nardog (talk) 10:22, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Art-house films in Europe still need to sell tickets to be considered successful. Ticket sales wouldn't be reported, celebrated or lamented every week in Europe if it didn't matter or had no influence over funding for filmmakers' future projects. 300,000 tickets from an entire continent is not a hit. €7.5 million is a huge budget for a European film. Most art-house European films are made with much less. Despite not being an art-house film, Asterix & Obelix: The Middle Kingdom is a flop despite selling over 4 million tickets but not paying its own budget since it had to sell at least 7 million tickets to be financially succesful. And when it comes to art-house films, Triangle of Sadness sold over 2 million tickets in Europe in the same year this film was released, or The Beasts selling over 800,000 tickets in Europe - now those are succesful films by European standards in ticket sales.

So the issue here is not having a source with the word "flop" despite the numbers from the sources clearly showing that it was? That's not a problem when several other articles mention the same in the lede.

"Just don't bring up the budget unless the source does"

Then why did you remove the budget from the box office section if it was sourced? Zoolver (talk) 20:56, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Whatever the point of your first paragraph is, it completely eludes me. Convincing your fellow editors a claim is true doesn't give you permission to include it in an article; you just have to source it.

when several other articles mention the same in the lede WP:OTHERCONTENT. Just because something is common doesn't mean it should be everywhere.

why did you remove the budget Because it's SYNTH to juxtapose the gross with the budget. What I meant is that the budget shouldn't be discussed together with the box office performance unless the source for the performance brings up the budget. Otherwise, the budget belongs to the Production section if any. Nardog (talk) 22:13, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Whatever the point of your first paragraph is, it completely eludes me

The point was to show you that you were wrong in how box office is measured in Europe with your claims that "European productions aren't made to make money" and that an art-house film doesn't lose money if it flops.

Just because something is common doesn't mean it should be everywhere

Fair enough. So you should start applying the same rule to other articles about films that flopped like this one did. Zoolver (talk) 00:35, 30 June 2023 (UTC)