Talk:Coptic Catholic Church

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Big words

"Schism" and "come into" or "dissociation" and "returning (reuniting) to"? Paxcoder (talk) 19:19, 27 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox

Whomever created the infobox apparently used Father Ron Roberson's tabular data presentation at CNEWA - (which is Annuario Pontificio data) for the number of 'ministers' and 'congregations'. That same source was not used for the number of 'members' - and I can't imagine why not or from whence the cited number derives. The existing figure here (250,453) is, unquestionably inflated (as I suspect is the AP data). But, that's neither nor there - it does seem that a consistent source ought to be utilized across stats, absent an explanation as to why some other source is better for a particular item. Given that, I'm going to edit it to the 2010 number (163,630) reported by AP/CNEWA. Irish Melkite (talk) 03:01, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm also changing the text in 'Orientation' to read 'Alexandrian (versus Coptic, as it is at present) Rite, both to be consistent with the terminology used in the opening sentence and because Alexandrian is the proper name of the Rite as cited in the CCEO. Irish Melkite (talk) 03:15, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

I've made some editorial changes to the lead to: improve agreement (e.g., 'it (the CCC) represents' rather than 'Coptic Catholics represent' with subsequent reference to the action of its adherents), tighten language (e.g., in order to > to), convert language to common parlance (e.g., 'enter into communion' vs 'come into communion'), eliminate redundancy (e.g., The current patriarch is Patriarch), correct patriarchal styling (i.e., Patriarch of Alexandria of the Catholic Copts), correct patriarch's name (i.e., Antonios I Naguib vs Antonios Naguib), define the referenced cathedral as the patriarchal cathedral (the CCC has 6 other cathedrals in Egypt). Irish Melkite (talk) 05:11, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Source and Context

As currently drafted, this article is essentially a very close paraphrasing of Fr Ron Roberson's piece on the Coptic Catholic Church at CNEWA and in his book The Eastern Christian Churches – A Brief Survey (7th ed), with some loss of context. I'll try and work through it, sticking with Roberson as the source, but distancing a bit from his text and cleaning up contextual misunderstandings that have crept in here. Irish Melkite (talk) 05:21, 13 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Catholic Church naming conventions RfC

There is currently an RfC at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (Catholic Church)#RfC: should this page be made a naming convention that may be of interest. Chicbyaccident (talk) 09:50, 4 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:24, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dubious origin

This article states the following:

Since the Council of Chalcedon in the 5th century and the official secession of the Coptic Church from the Church of Rome, the Catholic Church has attempted to achieve reunion with the Copts in Egypt many times.

Yet the Coptic Orthodox Church article states:

Due to disputes concerning the nature of Christ, the Oriental Orthodox Churches and the Eastern Orthodox Church were in schism after the Council of Chalcedon in AD 451, resulting in a rivalry with the Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria.^[1]

They can't both be right, at least directly. The fact is that the Coptic schism was primarily with Constantinople, and the Copts were actively persecuted, as we see in Arab conquest of Egypt:

There was much enmity between the Roman (i.e. Byzantine) leaders at Alexandria. Theodorus was the commander-in-chief of the Romans in Alexandria, and the only other commander there seems to have been Domentianus. Among the civilians in Alexandria were two men of high rank: the non-Chalcedonian Menas, who was at opposition with Domentianus as both of them competed for power, and Philiades, the brother of Patriarch George I of Alexandria. Domentianus was feuding with both of these men, as well as with Cyrus, his own half-brother. Menas was also furious with Eudocianus for torturing the Coptic prisoners in Babylon. In addition, Theodorus was disgusted by Domentianus’ flight and abandonment of his troops, and took the side of Menas in their dispute. To help with the war effort, Menas recruited all the Greens in Alexandria, while Domentianus recruited all the Blues. These two factions immediately began infighting, and it was with great difficulty that Theodorus managed to stop them. He then demoted Domentianus from his rank of decurion, replacing him with Artana.^[2]^[3]...It is said that Heraclius, the Byzantine emperor, collected a large army at Constantinople, intending to lead it personally to Alexandria. However, before he could finalize the arrangements, he died. The troops mustered at Constantinople dispersed in the ensuing succession crisis, and no help came to Alexandria, which further demoralized the defenders.

I would like to propose to change the sentence in question to read:

Since the Council of Chalcedon in the 5th century and the official secession of the Coptic Church from the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches, the Catholic Church has attempted to achieve reunion with the Copts in Egypt many times.

Tfdavisatsnetnet (talk) 00:54, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Tfdavisatsnetnet: I agree generally but believe that a more correct term would be "split" rather than "secession" (which makes an implicit claim that the Copts were not carrying on the valid legacy of the early church, as opposed to the Coptic position). ~ Pbritti (talk) 02:20, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. I'll wait a few weeks and make the change if no one objects. Tfdavisatsnetnet (talk) 06:11, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Tfdavisatsnetnet: Not to steal your thunder, but I'll just do it tomorrow if you don't mind. Typically, this sort of change is a perfect case of a change where one can edit boldly. You made a nuanced point and have my support with no detractors, so I say let's just go for it! ~ Pbritti (talk) 06:13, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have no thunder. I am glad you made the change! Tfdavisatsnetnet (talk) 03:04, 24 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Meinardus, Otto F. A. (1 October 2002). Two Thousand Years of Coptic Christianity. American University in Cairo Press. pp. 60–61. ISBN 978-1-61797-263-8. Archived from the original on 26 March 2023. Retrieved 19 March 2023.
^ Cite error: The named reference John was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ Cite error: The named reference Butcher was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[MeinardusOFA-1] Meinardus, Otto F. A. (1 October 2002). Two Thousand Years of Coptic Christianity. American University in Cairo Press. pp. 60–61. ISBN 978-1-61797-263-8. Archived from the original on 26 March 2023. Retrieved 19 March 2023.

[John-2] Cite error: The named reference John was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[Butcher-3] Cite error: The named reference Butcher was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

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