Talk:Coprolalia/Archive 1

Pronunciation

How the heck do you pronounce this word? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.58.158.194 (talk) 01:30, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

   The dictionary says: kä-prə-lā-lē-ə

143.112.32.4 (talk) 01:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Botox

has someone confirmed that Botox-to-the-vocal-cords thing? that's too funny. Estephan500 18:31, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You wouldn't think it was very funny if you suffered from coprolalia. It's slowly destroying every meaningful social connection in my life. Mine showed up out of the blue in my 30's. I can't even serve in the military anymore, which is the only career I've ever had.

I removed that. It's quite clearly a joke/vandalism. (Some patients have been treated by injecting botulinum toxin near the vocal cords. This does not prevent the vocalizations, but the partial paralysis that results helps to control the volume of any outbursts.) - 139.184.30.17 10:32, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Check PubMed or google; there are numerous studies. I cited only three, but there are more. Please consider checking google before deleting content. Sandy 13:27, 18 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't change the fact that it's ridiculous at best and medical malpractice at worst.

Thank you for your insight, Doctor. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.248.219.26 (talk) 10:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC).[reply]

"Rediculous" or not is not relevant. See Appeal to ridicule. If you can find verifiable secondary sources reporting that it's medical malpractice, that can be added. Personally I doubt such sources exist. 208.81.43.46 (talk) 17:31, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's not in any way "clearly a joke/vandalism"...While it is certainly true that botox is one of the deadliest toxins in existence, it does not prevent it from probably being used in medicine. While I'm not a medic, I have some understanding of chemistry, based on the fact that I'm studying it at the university...and as in all cases with toxins or generally dangerous chemical substances, the main factor in their potential lethality is the concentration. If the concentration is sufficiently low, an otherwise toxic substance will cause no to little harm: the specific dosage which is lethal has not been reached, as the mass concentration (and thus the mass, speaking in absolute terms) of the specific agent in a solution is too low. As such, toxins that are sufficiently diluted may very well be used as a treatment - in this case it seems to be true, as the user undoubtedly gave sources.

You may be surprised, but it is actually possible to spill an entire beaker of sulphuric acid in one's face and get away completely unharmed (I know, first hand experience) - if the acid is diluted enough (in that case, the concentration was something like 1*(10^-7) mol*L^-1 or even lower...) Vargher (talk) 21:16, 7 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Origin of word

This articles says coprolalia comes from greek lalia meanning "meaningless talk" yet the glossalalia page says that "lalo" means merely "speaking." Why the discrepancy? Amulekii 05:24, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know: I didn't insert that text, and I'm not certain of the answer. Sandy 12:34, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Sandy, that was most helpful.

If as quoted "Coprolalia comes from the Greek κόπρος (kopros) meaning "faeces" and λαλία (lalia) meaning "babbling, meaningless talk".

"faeces" or Kopros is defined as ‘excrement/ ordure of men and cattle’.

How do the words "kopros" or "faeces" translate into the word "meaningless"?

In plain words this appears to me to be saying "talking shit", or even, talking out of one's backside!

I don't mean to be crude, but that is a lot nearer to the words "faeces babbling" than "meaningless talk"!

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.148.157 (talk • contribs) 10:36, February 20, 2009

It's not literally in the sense of faeces, like most neologisms assembled from greek or latin roots there is a degree of metaphor. "Foul speech" would be an apt literal english translation. The Yowser (talk) 15:31, 6 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Original research removed

Removed anon original research from article for discussion:

Although this figure of an occurence of less than 15% of patients that have coprolalia is often quoted, it is hard to find any hard evidence that supports it. A review of abstracts from "Medline" would suggest a more likely figure, supported by research, of over 30%. 195.248.119.71 (talk · contribs)

If the anon editor who inserted it wants to discuss, I'll explain. Sandy 23:10, 5 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I added studies and context to the article, to explain the misapplication of older data. Sandy 20:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Something seems to be wrong here folks. Lalia does not mean meaningless talk. "Lalia" is simpy the sound of the species, for humans that is just "talk". Meaningless has nothing to do with it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.203.9.147 (talk) 20:07, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

How do they pick up the words?

You can't use words you don't know.

Granted, it's very hard nowadays to be sheltered from swearing and cursing, but I'm relieved that in my curiosity I found that the percentage of those with TS who exhibited this is considerably less than half. Because the way the media and others have stigmatized this, it makes it sound like people pick up swear words even if they've never heard them; and that's not possible, language must be learned.

That brings me to my question, which I think should be part of the topic. How, do those with this pick up the words, and why do they automatically use taboo words? Like, say for instance, I know someone with TS who has never heard ****. He hears it, I act shocked, and so he figures it's taboo. Does the part of his mind that says not to say it then turn off, or what?

Further, what about someone growing up in an environment where the words are *not* taboo, like some inner cities where every 2nd word is ****? Does this person then *not* say the taboo word becasue where they've grown up, they haven't learned it is taboo?

All things I was curious about when I looked up this article, and probably all things that are far too complex for anyone to include *in* the article. But, I thought I'd ask.63.3.19.130 01:35, 12 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"I know someone with TS who has never heard ****"

Wikipedia is NOT CENSORED!!!!!! Just kidding. Excellent questions.--Threedots dead (talk) 18:32, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sign language text

Cases of deaf Tourette patients swearing in sign language have been described,^[1]^[2] showing that coprolalia is not just a consequence of the short and sudden sound pattern of many swear words.^[3]

I've moved this text here[1] to 1) clean up the citation to agree with the Diberri format, and 2) request quotes from the full text of the article verifying coprolalia. I can only access the abstracts: they indicate tics but do not mention coprolalia. (The abstracts are PMID 10752584 and PMID 11794551.) Please provide quotes from the full text of the journal articles verifying the coprolalia text. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:33, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes these are confirmed.

From the Morris article "It became clear at this time that sign language was an integral part of the expression of his range of tics. He would randomly intersperse obscene signs and finger-spelled obscene words in normal conversation. Signed tic production seemed to be contextually sensitive. He repeatedly produced sexual signs when conversing with women and he repeatedly interspersed the sign for vomit during a cooking class."
And from the Dalsgaard article "He did although develop copropraxia, obscene gestures which was not sign language, but evidently obscene gestures everyone could recognise as such. Furthermore, his parents noticed “coprolalia” in his sign language: sudden utterances in sign language, a single word or a short sentence with a clearly obscene content,but only evident to those familiar with sign language. This “coprolalia” was not perceived as an extension of his copropraxia."

I hope this helps. --Slp1 (talk) 22:39, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks so much, Slp1; I'll add that text back then. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:01, 7 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't deaf Tourette's patients swearing in sign language technically be copropraxia, not coprolalia? 173.12.172.149 (talk) 03:19, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See the quote above from the source (This “coprolalia” was not perceived as an extension of his copropraxia.) On Wiki, we can't speculate; we report what the sources say. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:26, 6 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Morris HR, Thacker AJ, Newman PK, Lees AJ (2000). "Sign language tics in a prelingually deaf man". Mov. Disord. 15 (2): 318–20. PMID 10752584. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
^ Dalsgaard S, Damm D, Thomsen PH (2001). "Gilles de la Tourette syndrome in a child with congenital deafness". Eur Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 10 (4): 256–9. PMID 11794551. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
^ Cite error: The named reference jh was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

Difference from normal swearing

I have known people with this symptom. I once even had it myself for a day due to a change in Tourette's medications. It does not sound like normal swearing, at least in the people I've known. The swearing is often totally out of context. It sounds forced. It does not sound like the person is really angry. Then again I met one person with extreme TS who sounded like he meant it, though he said it for no apparent other than that people would think it inappropriate, which is how it works.

Also, I once read about a case of brain surgery on someone without TS, where the patient's brain stem was stimulated and he started cursing. Since most experts believe TS to be centered in the primitive parts of the brain, this might be an explanation.Bostoner (talk) 04:02, 24 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We need a video

A video showing someone involuntarily uttering one or more words would add to the article. --91.11.48.3 (talk) 17:23, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have never come across one that's accurate. I just did a google search, and found a number that are (still) inaccurate. If we start adding them here, we're likely to get an influx of junk and spam. If anyone knows of one that is accurate, pls suggest it here on talk. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 18:07, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it would help. I have an associated anxiety reaction that precipitates swearing. I swear all the time, even when I'm alone, driving, reading, showering; pretty much about 30 or 40 times a day. Most of the time I sound like I'm upset about something, but while I am upset usually because of the anxiety, I'm not upset about any real or substantial thing and if I really try to fight it off, I start having panic attacks. Its a god damn nightmare. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.17.176.28 (talk) 03:36, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I sometimes swear in various accents while driving. If I don't swear I start sweating due to being nervous. 72.134.97.155 (talk) 15:46, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

English only?

Is the swearing always in english? I get that sense from the article. I was wondering if the swearing related to languages known. Would a person who knew only french swear in french or english? If they knew several, would they use expressions from all or just english? --Auric (talk) 17:03, 26 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your question is very strange. Of course the swearing is in the sufferer's usual language. Why would they switch to English for a neurological condition? What if they didn't know English? 86.25.184.170 (talk) 22:42, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I was wondering is this was an English-only condition. The wording actually makes it seem peculiar to speakers of English. It might need to be changed. --Auric talk 00:24, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Morris HR, Thacker AJ, Newman PK, Lees AJ (2000). "Sign language tics in a prelingually deaf man". Mov. Disord. 15 (2): 318–20. PMID 10752584. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

[2] Dalsgaard S, Damm D, Thomsen PH (2001). "Gilles de la Tourette syndrome in a child with congenital deafness". Eur Child Adolesc Psychiatry. 10 (4): 256–9. PMID 11794551. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

[jh-3] Cite error: The named reference jh was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

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