Talk:Contemporary art/Archive 3
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From the viewpoint of the 2000s
Clearly, by the lists of 20th century movements in this article, it article can't be solely about the 21st century, otherwise the title would be "21st century art". Contemporary art is 'contemporary' according to the period it is being produced. I've added "from the viewpoint of the 2000s" to the intro to reflect that. Sionk (talk) 17:28, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
- @Sionk:. Generally speaking, within the art world (public auctions, museums, galleries, art historians, art fairs, salons, etc.) contemporary art spans from the mid-1940s (the end of World War II) to now. It takes over where modern art left off. Some artists, such as Joan Miró, are considered intermediate between the two periods. In this light, the lead sentence of the article is not yet clearly stated. Coldcreation (talk) 18:09, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
- The opening sentence should not say "...by artists who are living in the twenty-first century." That does not make sense. Bus stop (talk) 20:02, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
- Glad I managed to get people cogitating on it and making sensible improvements. Sionk (talk) 22:20, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
- I tried a rewrite that conforms pretty closely to the several definitions in the "Scope" section. "Produced by artists who lived in the 20th century" is too broad and lets in artists like Andreas Achenbach (1815 – 1910) and others of his generation who lived long enough. Ewulp (talk) 23:47, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
- Agree with all this, but a weather eye should be kept out for a change in the meaning of the term. Soon, it either needs to become a historical one (as "modern" has become in various contexts), and perhaps acquire a capital, or the start date needs to come forward from say the 1960s (which of course many definitions already do). Johnbod (talk) 01:09, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
- I agree as well; and who knows what's to come; Post Contemporary; Ultra Contemporary; New New Contemporary; one of these days we'll have to get specific perhaps...Modernist (talk) 01:16, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
- I think the second sentence is just meaningless pablum: "Contemporary art provides an opportunity to reflect on contemporary society and the issues relevant to ourselves, and the world around us." Bus stop (talk) 03:30, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
- Indeed. We should make every effort to avoid assigning meaning or function to a term that by definition represents no commitment to meaning or function. Ibadibam (talk) 22:33, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- I think the second sentence is just meaningless pablum: "Contemporary art provides an opportunity to reflect on contemporary society and the issues relevant to ourselves, and the world around us." Bus stop (talk) 03:30, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
- I agree as well; and who knows what's to come; Post Contemporary; Ultra Contemporary; New New Contemporary; one of these days we'll have to get specific perhaps...Modernist (talk) 01:16, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
- I've made further adjustments. It doesn't do well to equate "art of today" with art of the 20th century, which is necessarily not "today" anymore. One thing I'm too cowardly to take a stand on is that many uses of "contemporary art" don't refer to just any recent art, since there are plenty of present-day artists who wouldn't be considered "contemporary". Ibadibam (talk) 22:33, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
- Agree with all this, but a weather eye should be kept out for a change in the meaning of the term. Soon, it either needs to become a historical one (as "modern" has become in various contexts), and perhaps acquire a capital, or the start date needs to come forward from say the 1960s (which of course many definitions already do). Johnbod (talk) 01:09, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
- I tried a rewrite that conforms pretty closely to the several definitions in the "Scope" section. "Produced by artists who lived in the 20th century" is too broad and lets in artists like Andreas Achenbach (1815 – 1910) and others of his generation who lived long enough. Ewulp (talk) 23:47, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
- Glad I managed to get people cogitating on it and making sensible improvements. Sionk (talk) 22:20, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
- The opening sentence should not say "...by artists who are living in the twenty-first century." That does not make sense. Bus stop (talk) 20:02, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
- 20th century art does in fact relate even now to and in the definitions of contemporary art. Art being made today - today - is often being made by artists who began their careers; education; and work during the 20th century. Clearly contemporary art also encompasses work created in the 21st century by artists with or without roots in the 20th century. Things do change however they also often don't change. Works created in 1918 by artists such as Monet, Renoir, Bonnard, Vuillard, Signac, Cassatt as well as Degas (who died in 1917), and others were contemporaneous with works created by Picasso, Matisse, Duchamp, and other younger and active living artists. In actuality contemporary art today encompasses an enormously varied field - including but not limited to visual, physical art; both virtual; realistic, abstract, historical and both public and private....as well as conceptual and post-conceptual; all art that falls into the larger definition of contemporary art...Modernist (talk) 11:38, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- I'd say "contemporary art" now doesn't really extend back beyond the 1970s, and in some contexts beyond perhaps the 1990s. But there are perhaps signs that is becoming the period term for stuff from about after WW2 that doesn't easily fit into other movements, or as an umbrella term. There's a bit of a need for a term for this. CA also tends to exclude artists working in a traditional "realist" style, even if they are at it now. I seem to have shifted my position since my comment above last September (just noticed). Johnbod (talk) 13:15, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- Actually realism is still contemporary....Alex Katz, Philip Pearlstein, Lois Dodd, Janet Fish, Catherine Murphy, Yvonne Jacquette, Chuck Close, Robert Cottingham, Don Eddy, Richard Estes, Audrey Flack, among others...Modernist (talk) 14:52, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- Looking through this article, it offers several coexisting definitions of "contemporary art"
- "the art of today" (the most literal definition but not particularly accurate)
- certain movements since the 1910s
- all postwar art
- I don't advocate any particular definition over another, but I do think the lead could do a better job clarifying the differences that are covered in greater detail in the article body. Ibadibam (talk) 23:00, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- The lead's "the art of today, produced in the late 20th century or in the 21st century" seems ok. If the others are actually presented as defining the relevant period, they should be changed. Johnbod (talk) 23:23, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
- I'd say "contemporary art" now doesn't really extend back beyond the 1970s, and in some contexts beyond perhaps the 1990s. But there are perhaps signs that is becoming the period term for stuff from about after WW2 that doesn't easily fit into other movements, or as an umbrella term. There's a bit of a need for a term for this. CA also tends to exclude artists working in a traditional "realist" style, even if they are at it now. I seem to have shifted my position since my comment above last September (just noticed). Johnbod (talk) 13:15, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Additional Information
The Concerns section requires a citation and a check on references for propaganda as art and entertainment as art. Research can support propaganda as art, but not entertainment. http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20130703-can-propaganda-be-great-art Opeco1 (talk) 04:37, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Commentary by Andrea Rosen
Hi Freshacconci—Here are two relevant paragraphs. Unfortunately the commentary by Andrea Rosen is limited.
The resurgence of (and fuss over) painting and the increasingly glamorous personas adopted by the new generation of artists, like Mr. Loeb, Mr. Sachs, Ms. Brown, Lisa Yuskavage and others, also concerns some dealers. Andrea Rosen, who is often held up as the brainiest and most serious of the young dealers, said that some of the current crop of painters effect a pose without having anything to say. They have absolutely no idea of what it means to be a contemporary artist, she said. They are in it for all the wrong reasons.'
Like Ms. Rosen, many dealers now bristle when artists court public attention. They prefer the reclusive approach of the 90's stars like Matthew Barney, Robert Gober and Bruce Nauman, who cultivate apathy over whether their work sells and are notoriously publicity-shy. The artists in the 90's were not lifestyle people, said Ms. Gladstone, who represents Mr. Barney.
It is also pretty old, from 2000. Bus stop (talk) 14:01, 11 May 2018 (UTC)
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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: Nguye432.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 18:23, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Opeco1.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 19:28, 17 January 2022 (UTC)