Talk:Computing/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Computing. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Clarification

I wonder about the subject of kernel. Should there be an article on that? Or should it be interwoven with operating system Or should it be a subpage to operating system?? Im wondering this since Ive seen many links to kernel, and wonder if the plain title kernel is appropiate?

If you're not sure, make it a top-level page. It can always be redirected to a subpage later. At some point the Wiki Gnomes will be putting in 0.92 of useModWiki and doing a lot of renaming and other housekeeping in the process. I'm guessing that any gratuitous redirects will get cleaned up then as well. --loh (2001-07-27)

OK, so IEEE is not 100% computer-oriented, and the ISO deals with other things, but rather than removing the links, perhaps put down information regarding them instead? And if we want to get nitpicky about it, ASC deals only with how computers impact surveying, so perhaps that should be moved underneath "Businesss Computing" instead of "Professional Organisations"? TimmyD 21:39 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)

Sorry for stepping on your toes. I actually did add info regarding IEEE. The situation is more complicated with ISO, not only is it primarily non-computing (it is the #1 global standards body!), it is also not a "professional organization" in the usual sense. Yaronf 22:31 Apr 29, 2003 (UTC)

You're right in that ISO is not entirely computing, but they have released some of the most influential standards for comuting, such as MPEG, as well as standards for how to manage programming/computing projects. It's true that they're not a "professional organisation" in the usual sense, but they certainly need some sort of "honorable mention" on this page ... TimmyD 04:42 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)

I hope the latest version does it. Yaronf 07:57 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)

Oooo ... I like that ... now why didn't I think about creating a separate section for Standards? lol TimmyD 08:10 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)

It would be great if someone would write an article to go with this list of links? Perhaps I'll have to put up some WikiMoney --(talk to)BozMo 10:33, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

"Mechatronics"??? Does this deserve a top-level heading? I think it would make more sense under "classes of computers." The term I am more accustomed to seeing for this class is "Embedded systems." Jim H. 05:20, May 31, 2004 (UTC)

Why was rational number equated with "infinite precision"? A rational number is any number expressable as a fraction in which the numerator and denominator are integers, such as 7/3. Michael Hardy 21:33, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Re-Work •Is this article about the definition of Computing, Computing as a discipline or both? If no one responds with this I am going to do a re-work of this article to incorporate the basic definition and its use as a discipline.Tekeek (talk) 06:02, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Computing Vs Computer Science

The lists on this page don't seem to match the definition. What is the word for the FIELD of computer hardware and software design, manufacturing, and sales, if not "computing"? (It's not "computer science" because that has a specialized meaning.) The lists on this page, as for computer companies, are not specific to "the operation and [use of computers]".... [May 10 2005, Liberty ]

you're right. Bunch of us were talking in wikipedia about computer science vs computing, so we decided we needed a comp-sci-stub, well, to use with comp-sci stubs, which were labeled as computing. comp-stub was pointing to Computing, so we kinda needed to change the heading. i'll work on it some more during the week :) (Feel free to make changes of course ;)

Project2501a 07:55, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Ugly duckling

This article is basically nothing more than a list that more or less covers what Category:Computing already does. Perhaps we should redirect there? Unless there's anyone who wants to add substantial content to this article, I see no reason to maintain a laundry list that duplicates what Mediawiki already categorizes for us. -- mattb @ 2006-11-02T16:45Z

I agree about the fact that this article is currently a long list with not much interest. I disagree with the proposed redirection. Instead, the long list should be removed and the article should be developped since, I think, computing is a branch of computer science studying some fundamental aspects.

I would propose to keep just the introduction (and the nice ACM citation) and remove the following listing. The rest will need further developments.

As an example, I think the current sentence:

"In short, the concept of computing relates to human knowledge and activities which develop and use computer technologies"

is a bit restrictive. See for example theoretical computer science or digital physics for two examples which are not or try not to be related to computer technologies, but rather to computations as some kind of natural phenomena...

--Powo 09:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I do not agree with the statement that computing is a branch of computer science studying some fundamental aspects. In fact, I would argue that quite the opposite is true. I happened to come here now because I was looking for a concise definition of computing to use in a document I'm writing for the Computer History Museum. A brief review of that short article and the Museum site it links to should be enough to demonstrate that computing is generally viewed as the umbrella term, not computer science. The latter, as its WP article states, is limited to the study of the theoretical foundations of certain aspects of computing. Computing on the other hand covers a much wider array of subjects including computer hardware, software, CPUs, computer memory, computer networking, research into those technologies, computer product development, the computer business, computer-related education, and the application of computing technology in society. Chris Loosley 09:10, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, I dont know... If I remember well the paper "Computing as a discipline" from the ACM Task Force on the Core of Computer Science (you can "google scholar" it), they propose that the "core of computer science" should be called the "discipline of computing". Regards, --Powo 05:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

If we are going to look to the ACM and IEEE for guidance, here's a later reference -- Computing Curricula 2001 (CC2001) (pdf). "This document represents the final report of the Computing Curricula 2001 project (CC2001) -- a joint undertaking of the ... (IEEE-CS) and the ... (ACM) to develop curricular guidelines for undergraduate programs in computing" -- see Executive Summary. Note particularly Principle #1 in Chapter 4:

Computing is a broad field that extends well beyond the boundaries of computer science. A single report that covers only computer science cannot address the full range of issue that colleges and universities must consider as they seek to address their computing curricula. Additional reports in this series will be required to cover other computing disciplines.

Computing is used as an umbrella term throughout, and see Appendix A -- and this is just an undergraduate curriculum! Also, note particularly the use of computing in section 3.2 on Cultural Changes, in the second and third bullets on The dramatic growth of computing throughout the world and The growing economic influence of computing technology. Incidentally, the 4th bullet provides some historical context for Denning's 1989 report, pointing out that times have changed since then. So I think we can treat this document's usage of terminology as more authoritative. Chris Loosley 10:18, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok. I was wrong. Thanks for educating me on this one, and thanks for the ref which is nice. I'd like to read you paper for the museum once it is finished! :-) Regards, --Powo 23:55, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I am working on the nomination process for the Museum's Fellow Awards in 2007. I'll post a message on your Talk page when it's public.

Regarding the ideal future for this page, I believe it should become the major article associated with the computing category. I am not volunteering to write it, but if we simply augmented the present reference to "Computing as a Discipline" with a link to CC2001, maybe someone else will read that paper and contribute a summary. Also, many terms (like building, policy, game, law) have both broad and narrow meanings, so I think it would be right to retain the narrower definition, as long as the context is explained. Chris Loosley 21:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Just after posting the comment above, I found an even better reference: Computing Curricula 2005 -- The Overview Report is the final report of the joint ACM/IEEE work that began with the CC2001 report. Chapter 2 contains definitive statements about What is Computing, and could serve as the basis for a WP article. Some fair use quotes would probably be OK, or it might even be possible to obtain permission from ACM to quote from the report. Chris Loosley 00:42, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I have now edited the article's introduction and added references, to reflect the discussion above. I know that much more work is needed, but this is all I have time for at the moment. Anyone reading this, please go ahead and add more content to the article. The ACM/IEEE paper is an excellent resource. Chris Loosley 03:42, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Computing and Information Technology - What's the difference?

The article Computing begins:

Computing is usually defined as the activity of using and developing computer technology, computer hardware and software. It is the computer-specific part of information technology.

The article Information technology begins:

... is "the study, design, development, implementation, support or management of computer-based information systems, particularly software applications and computer hardware." IT deals with the use of electronic computers and computer software to convert, store, protect, process, transmit, and securely retrieve information.

Today, the term information technology has ballooned to encompass many aspects of computing and technology, and the term has become very recognizable. The information technology umbrella can be quite large, covering many fields. IT professionals perform a variety of duties that range from installing applications to designing complex computer networks and information databases. A few of the duties that IT professionals perform may include data management, networking, engineering computer hardware, database and software design, as well as the management and administration of entire systems.

When computer and communications technologies are combined, the result is information technology, or "infotech". Information Technology (IT) is a general term that describes any technology that helps to produce, manipulate, store, communicate, and/or disseminate information. Presumably, when speaking of Information Technology (IT) as a whole, it is noted that the use of computers and information are associated.

I don't see the difference. Well, the word counts are very different that might have something to do with which group an individual claims membership with - but in terms of function the two texts cover the same ground. Both claim development and use of computer hardware and software, both include communications (networking). Looked at another way, Computing claims to be only the computer-specific part of Information Technology, while Information Technology claims only computers; thus there is no "other" part. And that last sentence, "(IT) as a whole, it is noted that the use of computers and information are associated"? I don't think you can compute ("to determine ...") without information.

The descriptions should be revised, acknowledging each others existence and making clear what each does and does not encompass so that future Wikipedia readers will not as confused as I am (or the two topics merged - "People in ..." has already been merged).tooold (talk) 05:50, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Information Technology is a sub-discipline under Computing. See Computing As A Discipline and the Computing Curricular for reference. Tekeek (talk) 05:16, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Portal page

Despite all the comments in Ugly Duckling above, this page remains little more than a portal achieving precisely the same as Category:Computing. Unfortunately I am no expert, so I cannot edit this page usefully. I therefore, failing a sensible alternative, re-propose the original suggestion that this page be replaced with a redirection to the category. Jubilee♫clipman 00:27, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

List content moved to Outline of computing

The article has been converted to Wikipedia:Summary style. The Transhumanist 13:10, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

RfC: What is the difference between information technology and computing?

Currently it is impossible to tell the difference between these two subjects by reading their respective articles.

This means that there is either something included that shouldn't be, or something missing that should be included. Or both.

What are these subjects about, and how do they differ? The Transhumanist 15:35, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

In general terms Info tech is a softer element, dealing with IT centers, applications, etc. and does no deal with the "hard topics" like algorithm design, processor design, etc. History2007 (talk) 22:06, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

I advise against naive merging of Computing and IT

They are two distinct, yet interrelated subjects. The distinguishing line may blur near the borders, but I would say its worth noting the distinction between 'data' as processed by computers and 'information' as processed and distributed by information technologies. I think economics provides a great analogy: micro-economics is to computing as macro-economics is to IT, one cannot understand the latter without knowledge of the former, the latter functions on a macro (even global) scale while the former happens on a very small scale.

One could make the abstract argument that a single computing machine is a kind of information technology, but again IT usually involves (as the IT articles states) intercommunication and distribution of information between users (being computing machines and/or eventually human users)

Computing deals with the mechanisms of data processing, while IT deals with the usage and functions of the that data as information.

I think keeping in mind the data/information and macro/micro distinctions should resolve this debate.

Perhaps some explanation, like the above, about how computing differs from IT should be included on both or at least one of the pages. However, I think that this distinction is reasonably discernible by critical reading of both articles.

Anyone else care to weigh in? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1007198b (talk • contribs) 22:06, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Oppose merge, as explained just above. History2007 (talk) 22:08, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Oppose merge, It's also a difference in point of view. IT tends to be about how does an organisation (whether it's a commercial business, school, government agencym charity, ...) use technology to move information about and make decisions with it. So it's all about information flow, Management Information Systems and so on. Computing is how do I get a computer, or network of computers to achieve a task. That task may well have been decided upon from the IT perspective, but the Computing perspective is much more about the actual implementation of it. --86.186.68.172 (talk) 18:38, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Oppose merge, without looking at the articles, computing is a process while info tech is the resources applied to data. I'm going to look at the articles after posting this, but if a non-expert can spot a difference without being informed then it should be obvious. Cjripper (talk) 04:18, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

After reading both articles, it is obvious they both need development. However, there was not much evidence that they should be merged. Cjripper (talk) 04:39, 26 March 2012 (UTC)

For merge, Much of the material is replicated across both articles. The same topic is treated in both articles. This glut of articles that have no meaningful difference merely serves to complicate the navigational process for users. --Denting5 (talk) 17:57, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Strongest possible oppose to any merge proposal. Both pages are of an extremely high importance to their WikiProject, and also per Gjripper's definition showing the difference between the two subjects.

Deleted Post from ↓ due to irrelevence Cjripper (talk) 21:54, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

NORWAY — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.179.54.102 (talk) 15:00, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Hijacked word?

I may compute something (price, area, current, etc) without using computers... Is this original meaning of the word completely forgotten?

BTW, the scandinavian data, dator and datalogi (which failed in the US in the 1960's) is so much better than data, computer (meaning a person doing calculations) and computing / computer science.

I know it's far to late to change, but still... 83.255.36.250 (talk) 20:18, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

See Computation. There's a hatnote leading readers there. -—Kvng 16:21, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

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