Talk:Combat operations in 1964 during the Indonesia–Malaysia confrontation

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Fake/unreliable sources

There seems to be a trend for using questionable sources. Some users keep using WP:PUS sources that are clearly fake. Please either use English & reliable sources or use the talk page rather make unconstructive additions to the article. Eastfarthingan (talk) 18:00, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can we get a consensus on removing the section on Sakilkilo and Batugar? I can find no evidence of the existence of these two villages in Sabah other than in references to this battle from Indonesian sources, and contemporary Malaysian sources do not even mention an Indonesian attack into Sabah on the date in question (The Straits Times [1] mentions an Indonesian raid, but into the Serian district of Sarawak, and only with two civilian casualties). I very seriously doubt if such a battle ever occurred. Weikiat82 (talk) 16:31, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm quite a new editor so I'm not sure how things work on here, but I just want to tag @Wikishovel, @MarcGarver, @ScottishFinnishRadish, @GreenLipstickLesbian and @Nthep (who have edited this article since May) to make sure there's consensus on this. Weikiat82 (talk) 02:03, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sakilkilo and Batugar

I have completed searches across my whole university library and can find no reference to either village, or any battle. A search of geographic sources fails to confirm even the existence of the villages.

I also checked some specific sources including

Tuck, C. (2004) ‘Borneo 1963-66: Counter-insurgency Operations and War Termination’, Small wars & insurgencies, 15(3), pp. 89–111. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1080/0959231042000275588
Tuck, C. (2023) ‘Shaping hearts and minds: claret operations in Borneo, 1965-1966’, Small wars & insurgencies, 34(4), pp. 803–827. Available at: https://doi.org/10.1080/09592318.2023.2179809.

... and found nothing. While nothing available online, it's possible someone who can access a copy of Journeys Hazardous: Gurkha Clandestine Operations, Borneo 1965 by Christopher Bullock might find something. Other sources mentioning the Claret operations (the mission name for these actions) are available but don't mention the villages.

The UK National Archive has a record for the 99 Gurkha Infantry Brigade Prov Unit which, if a battle occurred that resulted in the loss of 20 men, you'd expect it to mention. Unfortunately the record isn't digitised and I'm not near enough geographically to the Archive to go look it up. Sources indicate a total loss of 43 Gurkhas in the Confrontation as a whole (e.g., Carver, Michael (1986). "Conventional Warfare in the Nuclear Age". In Paret, Peter. "The Makers of Modern Strategy: From Machiavelli to the Nuclear Age") so a one operation of loss of nearly 50% of the casualties would surely have been noted, but isn't.

I can only conclude that the information cannot be verified and therefore the section should be removed. MarcGarver (talk) 09:59, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]