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Discussion regarding the warnings in the article

[edit]

Dear contributors,

I have noticed the presence of certain warnings in the article I have written and would like to engage in a discussion to address them.

Firstly, regarding the "Unreliable sources" warning, I have taken this concern into account and made revisions to rectify the situation. I have removed the previous unreliable sources and added credible and verifiable sources from recognized publications in the field. I have also ensured proper citation of my sources in accordance with Wikipedia guidelines.

Regarding the "Conflict of interest" warning, I would like to emphasize that I have carefully considered this matter. While I have some familiarity with the subject as a longtime observer, I have no personal or financial interests that could influence the neutrality of the article. I am firmly committed to maintaining an impartial and factual approach in my writing.

I would greatly appreciate it if you could review the modifications I have made and provide your comments and suggestions. I am open to any discussion and willing to collaborate with you to improve this article in accordance with Wikipedia standards.

I have removed the flag regarding unreliable sources but not the one regarding the conflict of interest.

Best regards, Gwanwata. Gwanwata (talk) 11:37, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Netherzone Gwanwata (talk) 11:49, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, and thank you for the message and the ping. Firstly, it's not a warning, it is a maintenance tag, which is a way to notify other volunteer editors that the page may need attention or work. I had noticed that the article was flagged by WikiProject Spam on 2/10/2024; I'm not sure who did the initial flagging. During the regular new article review process I noticed, on 2/23/2024 that some of the sourcing was poor, and that it had some of the other usual characteristics of a COI or even a UPE connection. However, it was actually this article Michael Pierre Price that made the COI quite evident. The Price article was clearly written by either someone very close to the artist, or the artist themself. The direct connection of both Goldberg and Price is also clear. I'm sorry if this is not the answer you were hoping for. The tag should remain on the article for now. Netherzone (talk) 19:33, 1 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello @Netherzone; I would like to jump in here for the sake of transparency, as I am the subject of this page. @Gwanwata had reached out to me directly in his research for further information and additional sources, which I have provided (the PBS and NPR references). He also recommended that I join this talk page to address any COI concerns directly. As is clearly visible in the article history, it is evident that I have made a good number of direct edits to the article since its publication, albeit mostly minor. I am a Wikipedia newbie, and did not realize that this might constitute a COI. I would greatly appreciate your guidance as far as how to proceed in the interest of neutrality and providing only factual, properly sourced information. If there are any direct edits that you are willing and able to make to improve the article, or general advice, I welcome your editorial expertise. Scribe1791 (talk) 01:18, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, @Scribe1791, and thank you for reaching out and for disclosing your COI. I'll post some additional information on your user talk page so you will have a better understanding of Wikipedia's guidelines and policies regarding conflict of interest editing moving forward. Please refrain from any editing articles directly with which you have a COI, and instead use the edit request system, more info here: Wikipedia:Edit Request Wizard/COI.
@Gwanwata also has a conflict of interest if they had reached out to you directly, so I will also post information re: COI editing on their user talk page. They will need to clarify whether or not they are being financially compensated for their edits. I also want to let you know that I will be adding both user names as "connected contributors" to article talk pages where COI applies.
And if you could follow the guidance at WP:COI there should be some instructions there how to disclose your respective COI's on your user pages. Please ask if you have questions about how to do that properly.
Again, thank you for being transparent, Scribe1791. I don't think I will have time today to go through the article's sourcing in relation to the content, (that is usually where COI creations have NPOV or OR issues). More info on neutral point of view: WP:NPOV and on original research WP:OR. But I will try to get to it in the next week. Feel free to ping me here or on my talk page if you have questions. Netherzone (talk) 15:59, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you @Netherzone. As you recommended, I won't be making any further direct edits to articles with which I have a COI. I was unaware that there was a formal process to declare a COI, or an edit request process. Based on your guidance, I have added a COI notice to my user page and and to the talk pages for Colin Goldberg, Techspressionism, and Michael Pierre Price. I have a few further questions regarding standard practice on Wikipedia:
If, for instance, I discover a new source (such as this academic paper, in which I am cited), how can I request that this is added as a source using the Edit Request Wizard?
Also if I wish to add my artwork to Wikimedia as a resource for editors, is this a COI? Am I allowed to upload any of my original work or photos within this context? Scribe1791 (talk) 12:43, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Scribe1791, You've made the declaration correctly, thanks for doing that.
Keep edit requests short and concise and follow the instructions of the Wizard. (There are two fields, for a short request or a longer one. Short requests get fulfilled more quickly.) State that you have a COI and state the changes you would like to make, along with the source. I'd do it for you, but your source from the conference proceedings is behind a paywall, so I am unable to verify it against whatever changes you suggest. Verifiability is a key policy of the encyclopedia. Is there a freely available copy somewhere? I do have JSTOR access.
Re: your other question, you can add images, but remember that Wikipedia is not a web host or a personal website. One or two that illustrate something being described in the text of the article would be appropriate. Since images have associated copyright issues you have to release your copyright (meaning anyone can use, sell, share or alter the image) - although there is a way to retain your copyright. Maybe ask about that at the Help Desk here or on the Commons Help Desk (they are two separate entities), as I'm not an expert in image use policies. I try to use fully-released copyright free-images when available.
Hope that is helpful. Netherzone (talk) 13:38, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Netherzone, thank you for the information. I don't believe the academic article is available on JSTOR, but I will watch for it. I appreciate the guidance that you have provided thus far regarding Wikipedia's protocol and editorial best practices. If there is anything further that I can do on my end to address the COI issue, please let me know. I believe that any prior references using YouTube, Vimeo and Medium as sources have been removed or replaced with original sources. If, at your convenience, you could review this article's sourcing and neutrality related to its content and make any requisite edits that would allow for the removal of the COI tag, it would be greatly appreciated. Scribe1791 (talk) 11:05, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Scribe1791, Thank you for your note. There is still clean up work needed on the article. Parts of it reads promotionally, or include unencyclopedic trivia/excessive detail. At least one citation appears to be bloggish or a low quality source.
There are too many images that do not have encyclopedic value - most of these belong on your personal website, or your gallery's website - WP is not a web host. If you were to chose two images of your work, what would they be and why?
The article is on my "To Do" list, and I will get to it; I'm a volunteer like 99% of the editors here. Thank you in advance for your patience. Netherzone (talk) 22:27, 7 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Dear @Netherzone
I wanted to inform you that I have made the COI declaration on my Wikipedia page. I am aware of the importance of transparency and I want to comply with the community standards. Could you please guide me on the next steps to remove the COI template from my page?
Thank you very much for your assistance.
Best regards. Gwanwata (talk) 14:58, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Gwanwata, I've left you some messages on your user talk page regarding your COI. Could you please kindly respond there?
Also, what do you mean by "my page" when you say Could you please guide me on the next steps to remove the COI template from my page? Do you mean your user page, or do you mean a specific article? Netherzone (talk) 19:51, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to know the process of removing the COI template from my user page and any other pages. Thank you. Gwanwata (talk) 10:11, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello @Netherzone, I appreciate that this article is on your "To Do" list, as well as your generous donation of time to help make Wikipedia a valuable and free source of information. Regarding the images, I feel like the image of me with my work Kneeling Icon at Hearst Tower, and Portals, 2006 are the most important. Kneeling Icon represents my most notable corporate acquisition, which is also the first augmented reality work in the Hearst Collection. The NFT associated with this piece is also the first piece of blockchain art in their corporate collection. This image also gives a sense of the scale of the work, which the others do not. Portals is one of the earliest works in my Wireframe series, which is probably the most recognizable body of work within my oeuvre; that is, the most that is visually "mine." It represents clearly the influence of the New York School Abstract Expressionist painters, as well as the gestural wireframe forms which speak directly to the visual language of technology. The confluence of these two influences resulted in my invention of the term Techspressionism to decribe my work, as "digital art" never seemed to fit the bill, and many gallerists and collectors had a hard time considering anything that involved a computer to be a painting. Scribe1791 (talk) 19:10, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Scribe1791, thanks for your note about images. Here's a thought. How would you feel if we use the Kneeling Icon image with you in it as the profile picture in the infobox, showing you with your work instead of the headshot? Then two other images could be in the article, for example Portals (a beautiful piece, BTW) and one of the wireframe images or wire-frame influenced images such as Antispace Structures?
Images in articles should exist to support encyclopedic content, which makes sense with the wireframes since the series is mentioned in the "Artistic Style and Influences" section. However I'm not seeing anything in the article about the more painterly work such as Portals. If you can direct me to a reliable source, for example a review, that specifically mentions that painting or series, I'd be happy to add that to the article when I get around to doing some of the above mentioned clean up. If so, please post the author, title, publication, and a web link URL. Netherzone (talk) 20:04, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello @Netherzone, I am in favor of the idea of using the Kneeling Icon photo as the profile image rather than the headshot. Also I like your suggestion of placing Portals and Antispace Structures as the two additional artwork images.
My combination of painting and digital printmaking is discussed directly in the WIRED article, the first reference: "Kendra Vaculin, "If Picasso Had A Macbook Pro, " WIRED, October 11, 2014".
However, I believe that the correct URL for this article should be that of the live article on WIRED.COM : https://www.wired.com/2014/10/if-picasso-had-a-macbook-pro/ , not the archived version on the Wayback Machine.
In this article by Kendra Vaculin, there are several images of painterly works from my Wireframe series (which Portals is a part of), and this particular passage speaks to the topic of my integration of painting and digital media:
"Goldberg’s method lies at the intersection of paint and digital print-making. “I start with an under-painting in oil or acrylic, on paper, canvas or linen,” he explains, “and then print vector drawings that I create on a [Wacom] tablet directly on top of that, using a large format printer.”"
The WIRED article also opens with an image of a Wireframe series laser etching created in the same timeframe as Antispace Structures.
One point of information that might be a possible consideration regarding sources is that the Vimeo link published by the Parrish Art Museum. I know in the original comments, it was mentioned that Vimeo is not necessarily a good source. However, this video was published to Vimeo by the Parrish Art Museum to the institution's Vimeo channel. This is the current source on WP:
"Colin Goldberg at PechaKucha Night Hamptons Vol. 27" (video). vimeo.com. Parrish Art Museum. Jun 18, 2015.
Alternatively, this video is also published on the Pechakucha website here. I am not sure which is a better source, the Museum's Vimeo video, or the same video on Pechakucha, which is the organization that created the short-form style presentation of these events. My preference would be the Museum's video on Vimeo, as it shows context, but I am not sure what is a better source for WP.

Scribe1791 (talk) 23:41, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Scribe1791, thanks for your response. I'll look into these suggestions in the next few days. In the meantime, what do you think about cropping the image of you with the Kneeling Icon image to just below the bottom edge of the painting - basically tightening it up to focus on the painting but still including you? I'd do the crop myself, but because Commons has recently changed some of their protocols, you would need to do it yourself as a change to the file or a re-upload. This change would give readers a better view of both the painting and your likeness as the artist. If you are agreeable to this crop, just send me a ping here once you have done that and I will change the infobox image.
In the meantime, after I find some time to look into the other matters in your message above, I will let you know. But you should know that one of the WP scripts/tools is flagging the Vimeo PechaKucha URL above as unreliable. Is there another source available? A secondary published source...something totally independent and not connected to you as a primary source? Like a review or a journal article or newspaper article? Because WP is an encyclopedia, sources that are fully independent - meaning what others have said about a subject, rather than what the person claims about themself, are considered reliable - especially for biographies of living persons. This is how the integrity of the encyclopedia is maintained.
Thank you for having a collaborative spirit, it is appreciated. Netherzone (talk) 00:39, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Netherzone, I am agreeable to your suggestion; the cropped image is at the end of this reply.

Regarding the Parrish Art Museum PechaKucha video; much of the information drawn from this source is available in articles which are listed below, organized by section.

EARLY LIFE AND EDUCATION

"As an undergraduate student, he did an internship through Long Island University, working as a studio assistant in the Hamptons for artist Steve Miller. Goldberg worked alongside Robert Bardin, a longtime screen printer for Andy Warhol.[8]"" ALTERNATE SOURCE: https://jameslanepost.com/colin-goldberg-curator-of-techspressionism/05/23/2022/Hamptons-News-Happenings/

"The artist first publicly exhibited his work in the 1989 East End Student Show at the Parrish Art Museum . As a high school student in the 1980's, Goldberg created his first digital drawings and animations on his family's home computer, a Commodore 64.[8]"" ALTERNATE SOURCE: https://jameslanepost.com/colin-goldberg-curator-of-techspressionism/05/23/2022/Hamptons-News-Happenings/

"As an undergraduate student, he did an internship through Long Island University, working as a studio assistant in the Hamptons for artist Steve Miller. Goldberg worked alongside Robert Bardin, a longtime screen printer for Andy Warhol.[8]"" ALTERNATE SOURCE: https://jameslanepost.com/colin-goldberg-curator-of-techspressionism/05/23/2022/Hamptons-News-Happenings/


"In the mid-1990s, Goldberg learned HTML and, as a freelance artist, launched brands such as Merrill Lynch, Snapple, and Popular Science onto the web.[10]"" ALTERNATE SOURCE: https://www.wired.com/2014/10/if-picasso-had-a-macbook-pro/

"Shortly after beginning graduate school, his painting Pollock's Studio was accepted into the permanent public collection of the Pollock-Krasner House and Study Center in East Hampton, New York.[8]"" ALTERNATE SOURCE: https://jameslanepost.com/colin-goldberg-curator-of-techspressionism/05/23/2022/Hamptons-News-Happenings/

LONG ISLAND

"In 2014, he exhibited a survey of his work at Glenn Horowitz Bookseller in East Hampton, New York. The solo show, curated by the artist Scott Bluedorn..." ALTERNATE SOURCE: https://jameslanepost.com/colin-goldberg-curator-of-techspressionism/05/23/2022/Hamptons-News-Happenings/


"The Techspressionist Manifesto, which was inspired by artistic manifestos of the past, including the Surrealist Manifesto and the Futurist Manifesto.[8]" ALTERNATE SOURCE (re: Manifesto) - https://www.wired.com/2014/10/if-picasso-had-a-macbook-pro/

ARTISTIC STYLE AND INFLUENCES

"Goldberg's early use of software such as Adobe Illustrator in his artwork was inspired by artists such as Andy Warhol, whom Goldberg described as "recontextualizing commercial tools in his practice."


"The artist's interests in digital art and painting converged in his Wireframe series, in which he began experimenting with running painted surfaces through his printer."" ALTERNATE SOURCES: https://www.wired.com/2014/10/if-picasso-had-a-macbook-pro/ https://www.danspapers.com/2022/04/techspressionism-movement-southampton/


"Goldberg was also heavily influenced by Abstract Expressionist painters such as Franz Kline, whose use of a projector borrowed from Willem de Kooning was the inspiration for a series of pencil drawings that were composed digitally and executed by hand with the aid of a projector."" ALTERNATE SOURCE: https://www.wired.com/2014/10/if-picasso-had-a-macbook-pro/

Other influences include the artist's maternal grandmother Kimiye Ebisu, an accomplished calligrapher who taught shodō in Hawaii and Japan.[8]

ALTERNATE SOURCES (Japanese Heritage/Influences): https://www.wired.com/2014/10/if-picasso-had-a-macbook-pro/ https://hamptonsarthub.com/2014/10/21/techspressionism-reflects-impact-of-japanese-aesthetics/

CURATION

In 2022, Goldberg organized and curated Techspressionism: Digital and Beyond, the first physical exhibition of Techspressionist artworks, which opened at Southampton Arts Center on April 21 of that year.[8] - INCORRECT SOURCING

ALTERNATE SOURCES: https://www.27east.com/arts/techspressionism-a-global-movement-with-local-roots-1933155/ https://www.danspapers.com/2022/04/techspressionism-movement-southampton/ https://jameslanepost.com/colin-goldberg-curator-of-techspressionism/05/23/2022/Hamptons-News-Happenings/

Colin Goldberg in Hearst Tower, NYC with Kneeling Icon, 2004-2022. Digital monoprint on vinyl with AR-triggered audiovisual NFT. 100x75 inches. Hearst Corporation collection.
Scribe1791 (talk) 09:30, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Scribe1791, The cropped image looks great! I'll change that out and do some work on image placement.
Please use the formal edit request system, which is linked above, that way there will be several editors on that team who may/may-not complete the request (and it can take a while because...volunteers and a backlog). Select the COI edit request option or template, more info here: WP:COIEDIT.
Looking at the sources you've listed above Wired is an excellent source that's contextually relevant to the work. 27East.com looks fine as well esp. since it's an affillate of the Southhampton Press, East Hampton Press and Sag Harbor Express newspapers and Hampton's Art Hub looks good too. However, Dan's Papers, and JamesLanePost seem sort of bloggish, I'd use them with discretion if at all. It's much better to have a few really good sources rather than numerous mediocre ones. Focus on quality rather than quantity when you make your edit request.
Before placing your request read what constitutes reliable sources for the Encyclopedia here: WP:RS. Independent, secondary, published sources are considered high quality, especially those with in-depth significant coverage. Primary sources, such as interviews press releases, calendar listings, personal websites and the like are less relevant and do not contribute to notability of the subject. National or international sources are favored over hyper-local coverage. PR, advertorials or native advertising are not reliable. Blogs, user-submitted content and newsletters are generally considered unreliable. Things like PechaKuchas or slide show talks are not reliable sources.
I know this is a lot of information to take in, and it takes a while to learn how things work around here. I do hope this information above helps when you make a formal edit request via the link(s) above. Best regards, Netherzone (talk) 20:49, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Netherzone, I'm glad you like the cropped image! Thank you very much for the work on this article's image usage and your advice regarding sourcing. On the basis of your recommendations regarding acceptable sources, I have created an abbreviated draft of the article, eliminating Dan's Papers, James Lane Post, and PechaKucha as sources, and published it in my user sandbox.
I have made my best effort to maintain a neutral tone and focus on quality rather than quantity, as you recommended. Would it be advisable to publish my formal edit request with a link to this draft, asking that editors review it as a possible resolution to sourcing concerns and consider removing the COI template from the article if they see fit? I am still a bit unclear on proper protocol here, and it seemed unwieldy to ask for a removal of every single reference which is based on a source that you advised may be questionable.
Before I publish my edit request, would you mind taking a look at this draft in my sandbox? If you feel that this draft satisfies your concerns regarding the article's sourcing and/or neutral tone, I would humbly ask that you consider replacing the current article with this draft and removing the tag yourself. Scribe1791 (talk) 14:30, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Gwanwata and Scribe1791, Late to the discussion, but I was looking at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Michael Pierre Price last night. It should be deleted. You are creating a Wikipedia:Walled garden full of puffery and peacock terms. Declaring a conflict of interest does not exempt one from needing reliable sources. The affected articles must be written in an encyclopedic tone. BLPs fall under particular scrutiny. I post these comment because the question was "what am I doing wrong?" and I believe the answer is Wikipedia:Autobiography which is strongly discouraged. The warnings aren't going to go away anytime soon. Best, --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 16:38, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you, @WomenArtistUpdates. I had given this the benefit of the doubt until I discovered this is the third time this article has been created. I'm not sure if there is sockpuppetry or meatpuppetry or UPE going on here, but something is not right. Netherzone (talk) 17:03, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not sure what sockpuppetry or meatpuppety are, in the context of WP, would you please explain? Scribe1791 (talk) 18:15, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello @WomenArtistUpdates and @Netherzone; based on feedback related to sourcing from @Netherzone; I have posted a formal edit request as recommended below. For this purpose, I have created a draft revision within my user sandbox for editors to review, as it would have been unwieldy to address the sourcing concerns individually.
This draft is limited to the sources that @Netherzone stated above were valid (" Wired is an excellent source that's contextually relevant to the work. 27East.com looks fine as well esp. since it's an affillate of the Southhampton Press, East Hampton Press and Sag Harbor Express newspapers and Hampton's Art Hub looks good too.") NPR and PBS are also included as sources, albeit interviews.
I eliminated the questionable sources ("Dan's Papers, and JamesLanePost seem sort of bloggish, I'd use them with discretion if at all.") in this draft. Would you mind reviewing this revised document with regards to its sourcing and neutrality?
The draft is here: User:Scribe1791/sandbox Scribe1791 (talk) 18:32, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • What I think should be changed (include citations):

For the sake of transparency, I will state that I am the subject of this article, as is noted in the COI declarations on the talk page for the article and my user talk page. There are several sources which have been identified as problematic by another editor on this article's talk page (Dan's Papers, James Lane Post, and PechaKucha). It was stated by the same editor that WIRED, 27 East, Southampton Press, and East Hampton Star are valid sources. PBS and NPR are also listed as sources, albeit being interviews with the subject. Since it would be burdensome to request a change for every reference, I have created a draft rewrite with the problematic sources removed within my userpage sandbox:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Scribe1791/sandbox

My request is that the current article be replaced in its entirety with the rewrite in my userpage sandbox, with any additional cleanup that contributors see fit to specifically address concerns around the article's sourcing and/or neutrality.

  • Why it should be changed:

I believe the draft rewrite addresses COI concerns regarding sourcing and neutrality through the removal of multiple questionable sources as identified by the editor who placed the COI maintenance tag on this article.


Scribe1791 (talk) 19:03, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Scribe1791, thank you for your patience with this edit request. Unfortunately long requests like this one often take a while. I've made some but not all of the changes suggested in your sandbox, please feel free to open followup requests if you'd like to suggest any additional changes. Rusalkii (talk) 20:22, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have kept the PechaKucha source used to identify influences, since that seems like a relatively uncontroversial WP:ABOUTSELF to me. Other editors should feel free to dispute this. I am not sure if this addresses all the issues of the editors who tagged the page, leaving those for now for others to evaluate. Rusalkii (talk) 20:25, 27 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

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