Talk:Colhuacan (altepetl)

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Clarification sought

Re the quote of Pohl's view about this being "the first Toltec city"- does this mean after the fall of Tollan, or-? I understand the primary sources diverge on this point, some indicating Culhuacan's prominence post-dated the collapse at Tollan, others put it as being a contemporary ally.

Re the tale of the sacrifice of the Culhua ruler's daughter, I think it's possible that Yaocihuatl ("warrior woman") mentioned in the Cronica account is an epithet for (or a.k.a.) the deity Toci ("our grandmother")- see the entry on Toci, the primary source for the account there I think comes from Codex Duran. --cjllw | TALK 09:10, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the "first Toltec city" comment, I agree that this is confusing at best. In The Toltec Heritage: From the Fall of Tula to the Rise of Tenochtitl±an, Nigel Davies wonders whether the Toltec-era Culhuacan (which he refers to as Teoculhuacan) is not a separate city from the 14th century (Mexica-era) Culhuacan. "Both Kirchhoff and Jimenez Moreno have tended to regard the Culhuacan of the Valley of Mexico as a post-Tollan development . . . Ixtlilxochitl states that Culhuacan came after Tollan." (p. 26) I myself am trying to sort this out.

I would like to rewrite this article (which seems to be a pastiche of web articles), but it's not at the top of my To Do list. Cheers, Madman 19:04, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there seem almost to be two Culhuacans- the actual township close to Lake Texcoco, and the near-legendary contemporary of the Toltec, conceived as being "further away" (from the reference point of Tenochtitlan). Agreed on the need for rewrite, it does seem likely that the initial contribution's contents are originally from elsewhere.--cjllw | TALK 23:49, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]