Talk:Cliff Williams

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Cliff Williams article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Cliff Williams has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
November 17, 2011	Good article nominee	Listed

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians (assessed as Low-importance).

Australia: Music Low‑importance

	Australia portal Cliff Williams is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Australian music (assessed as Low-importance).
	Need help improving this article? Ask a Librarian^{What's this?} at the National Library of Australia.
	The Wikimedia Australia chapter can be contacted via email to helpwikimedia.org.au for non-editorial assistance.

England Low‑importance

	England portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EnglandWikipedia:WikiProject EnglandTemplate:WikiProject EnglandEngland-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Metal

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Metal, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of heavy metal music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MetalWikipedia:WikiProject MetalTemplate:WikiProject MetalHeavy Metal articles

Rock music Low‑importance

	Rock music portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Rock music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Rock music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Rock musicWikipedia:WikiProject Rock musicTemplate:WikiProject Rock musicRock music articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Home

I'm taking out the link to "Home," as it is not the same band Cliff Williams was in. JBDay 01:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

AC/DC

You would think this article might have a little more information on the past 30 years he's been with AC/DC. - cgilbert^{(talk|contribs)} 21:56, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Cliff Williams/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Moisejp (talk · contribs) 06:53, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. In the next couple of days or so, I'll be reviewing this article for GA. Moisejp (talk) 06:53, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There was one disambiguation link but I have fixed it. There are a couple of other links whose status is unclear, but I'm going to look into them more carefully next time. Moisejp (talk) 07:08, 13 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
~~Everything is fine except the lead. I don't think his family situation deserves a paragraph to itself, or needs to be included in the lead at all.~~
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
~~A few of the references are fan sites that are not reliable sources.~~
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
He's been with AC/DC for 33 years. I expected to see more highlights of his career with them. Besides the mention of the two Halls of Fame, his career after 1978 is summed up as "Williams has remained in AC/DC ever since." OK, fixed.
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.:
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

I have made a bunch of edits and cleaned up various issues, but some major issues still remain. One is that a couple of the sources are fan sites and not reliable sources: #14 "Interview with Mark Eans" and #29 "AC/DC Info Base". Also, #28, it's not clear what that "quote" in quotation marks is supposed to represent. I would strongly recommend cutting the Equipment section, then you could get rid of some of these dubious sources. I find it's generally hard in music articles to include this kind of Equipment section without relying on fan sites. Also, I wonder whether non-musicians are largely interested in the specific instrument makes he uses. I'm not saying nobody is interested, but it may be relevant to fewer people, and as such seems less serious if it were cut.

The other big issue is that his 33 years in AC/DC are very under-represented. That section should be quite a bit longer. I also commented above that the lead is unbalanced, but I think if you added more to the AC/DC section, you would be able to make the lead more balanced. Moisejp (talk) 05:57, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the fansite: the first is a transcript of an interview (the intro on the link shows that)... the latter, I use because the website creator seems reliable (he works on AC/DC's website, has his interviews used in an official release). Well, the Equipment one is seen in the article I mostly modeled this on (as well as a recent bassist FA), so don't know if it needs to cut (I even added some more text and refs to it). Done some work now, think it still needs more expansion? igordebraga ≠ 18:58, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

All right, you have convinced me about the reliability of the fan site. The fact that it was a transcript to an interview by itself doesn't necessarily make its use legitimate, but I was also convinced because it says that the author gave them permission to reprint it. That clears up the ref problems, and the Equipment section now seems fine.

The lead seems a little bit on the short side but is I guess acceptable. It does summarize the article reasonably well. The info you added to the AC/DC section also brings it within the acceptable range. I guess there may not be much else that's notable that's specifically about Williams and not the whole band—so if readers want more info about the band they can look at the band article. So, good work, I'm passing this article. Moisejp (talk) 06:53, 17 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to one external link on Cliff Williams. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110105075810/http://www.buoy.com/~bonfire/info.htm to http://www.buoy.com/~bonfire/info.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 18:11, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Cliff Williams. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110105085348/http://www.buoy.com/~bonfire/interviews.htm to http://www.buoy.com/~bonfire/interviews.htm#MARK
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091126120725/http://www.aria.com.au/pages/hall-of-fame.htm to http://www.aria.com.au/pages/hall-of-fame.htm
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/acdc_and_the_gospel_of_rock/page/3
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.buoy.com/~bonfire/info.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:26, 26 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 6 external links on Cliff Williams. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:14, 1 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Cliff Williams. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:24, 25 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"plucking"

The last sentence in the section "Style" states that Williams sometimes uses "plucking" in his playing.

Clicking the link takes you to the page on pizzicato technique, and that page specifies that "pizzicato" or "plucking" on the guitar refers to the technique commonly known in the rock and roll world as "palm muting", and has nothing on bass technique. It is obvious from Williams' quote that palm muting is what is being referred to here.

So why is it referred to here as "plucking" instead of the more idiomatic and easily understandable "palm muting"? Williams uses a pick. In rock bass lingo, "plucking" and "pizzicato" usually refer to playing fingerstyle, not to palm muting. The way the term is used here can very easily lead to confusion. Since the context is rock and roll bass playing, we should change the link to read "palm muting" and direct it here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_mute 188.238.4.81 (talk) 21:44, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]