Talk:Clear Script

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This article was the subject of an educational assignment that ended on 2009 spring semester. Further details are available here.

Untitled

In Xinjiang the Mongols are not called Kalmyk! It is considered derogatory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.215.234.50 (talk) 21:52, February 19, 2007 (UTC)

change title

I think this article should be titled "Todo script" (or even "Clear script"), in line with other similar articles. Any objections? --Latebird 23:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Todo bichig, Todu bičig, Todo bičig, Todu üsüg, Tod üseg, only to mention some variants available for transcribing that title. Thus, only for "Todu", there are three variants. Therefore, the most suitable title would be "Clear script". G Purevdorj 13:28, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The exact transliteration is a seperate question (that would depend on the final form of Wikipedia:Romanization of Mongolian). A fully english title is of course best, if that is considered appropriate. I'm going to rename the article then.

Btw: Is the clear script really specifically kalmyk? Most sources seem to list it as a mongolian script. --Latebird 14:09, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Clear script is primarily Oirat/Kalmyk. Listing as a "Mongolian" script is a given, if one considers Oirat/Kalmyk as 'Western Mongolian [sic. Mongolic]'. --Pachooey 18:33, 12 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

characters image

I've updated the picture to a png, which ought to be better. If anybody knows the IPA and either changes that or gives me the IPA so that I can change it that would be very nice. Also this is all the letters that showed up last time, is it all the letters?--Erkin2008 23:39, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The vertical layout is much better, thanks! For the latin characters in the table, I think that scholarly transliteration would be most appropriate (it's a linguistic topic). A table for classical Mongolian can be found at Mongolian.pdf, although I'm not sure if there is an obvious correspondence for all characters of the Clear Script.

Now I just wish we had a similar character table for classical Mongolian.... --Latebird 15:14, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sample Texts

I can't seem to decipher this very well. If somebody can, and posts the latin that would be very helpful to whoever would come here. I also can then put it in the standard font. --Erkin2008 21:08, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Um, don't we have any examples that are more appropriate for the predominantly buddhist context than bible verses? --Latebird 07:40, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think most of the Bhuddist documents were in Tibetian, some of them were translated into Kalmyk is well I think, but the Tibetian ones were used the most. --Erkin2008 20:12, 5 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New Chart

I'm putting it on the talk page while I update it, when it's complete I'll exchange it. Anyone else is welcome to work on it while it's here. For I start I've copied the Classical Mongolian chart.

Characters			Transliteration		Notes
initial	medial	final	Latin	Cyrillic	Notes
	File:Todo a middle 2.jpg	File:Todo a tail 1.jpg	a	А	Distinction usually by vowel harmony (see also q/γ and k/g below)
	File:Todo a middle 2.jpg	File:Todo a tail 1.jpg	e	Э
	^[1] ^[2]		i, yi	И,Й, Ы, Ь	At end of word today often absorbed into preceding syllable
			o, u	О, У	Distinction depending on context.
			ö, ü	Ө, Ү	Distinction depending on context.
	^[3] ^[4]		n	Н	Distinction from medial and final a/e by position in syllable sequence.
			ng	Н, НГ	Only at end of word (medial for composites). Transcribes Tibetan ང; Sanskrit ङ.
			b	Б, В
			p	П	Only at the beginning of Mongolian words. Transcribes Tibetan པ;
			q	Х	Only with back vowels
			γ	Г	Only with back vowels. Between vowels today pronounced as long vowel.^[5]
			k	Х	Only with front vowels. g between vowels today pronounced as long vowel.^[6]
			g	Г
			m	М
			l	Л
			s	С
			š	Ш	Pronunciation of this character hasn't changed.
			t, d	Т, Д	Distinction depending on context.
			č	Ч, Ц	Originally no distinction between /tʃ'/ and /ts'/, today by context.
			ǰ	Ж, З	Distinction by context. Originally often interchanged with y below.
			y	Е, Ё, И, Ю, Я	Part of diphthongs, although technically a consonant.
			r	Р	Not normally at the beginning of words.^[7]
			v	В	Transcribes Sanskrit व.
			f	Ф	Medieval Mongolian didn't use this sound.
			ḳ	К	Transcribes Russian К.
			(c)	(ц)	Transcribes Tibetan /ts'/ ཚ; Sanskrit छ.
			(z)	(з)	Transcribes Tibetan /dz/ ཛ; Sanskrit ज.
			(h)		Transcribes Tibetan /h/ ཧ, ྷ; Sanskrit ह.

^ Following a consonant, latin transliteration is i.
^ Following a vowel, latin transliteration is yi, with rare exceptions like naim (eight) or Naiman.
^ Character for front of syllable (n-⟨vowel⟩).
^ Character for back of syllable (⟨vowel⟩-n).
^ Examples: qa-γ-an (khan) is shortened to qaan. Some exceptions like tsa-g-aan (white) exist.
^ Example: de-g-er is shortened to deer. Some exceptions like ügüi (no) exist.
^ Transcribed foreign words usually get a vowel prepended. Example: Transcribing Русь (Russia) results in Oros.

Comments for class

great job! This page looks great! It was all very easy to read and understand. I got a good feel for the history and useage of the script. There were excellent details given regarding the history of use and current use. One suggestion I will make is to possibly add more to the writing Clear Script section. I feel like that could be a really interesting section, it just needs to be expanded upon. Overall great work!

~Kara BearsBeatBattlestarGalactica —Preceding undated comment added 04:32, 13 April 2009 (UTC).[reply]

Oh ... So first of all - CLEAR SCRIPT is a really cool name, although that's sort of besides the point. I also read Amanda's page which is about the Sogdian language and script so it was was interesting for me to read about a script that evolved from that script. While I love the page overall, I'm hoping that maybe you could add a bit more to the "History" section - I like that you already talk about how Clear Script came about as a better way of writing Mongolian but perhaps you could further discuss what made the Mongolian script worse. Hgun (talk) 03:13, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Capitalisation

Since it's a name, it should be capitalised as ‘Clear Script’. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.114.146.117 (talk) 09:08, 2 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Reading order of vertical columns

Are the vertical columns read left to right or right to left? When Japanese and Chinese are written vertically, the columns are usually read right to left. But the image of vertical clear script in this article looks like it's probably meant to be right left to right, though the article doesn't say that definitively. —Mahāgaja (formerly Angr) · talk 11:02, 20 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Following a consonant, latin transliteration is i.

[2] Following a vowel, latin transliteration is yi, with rare exceptions like naim (eight) or Naiman.

[3] Character for front of syllable (n-⟨vowel⟩).

[4] Character for back of syllable (⟨vowel⟩-n).

[5] Examples: qa-γ-an (khan) is shortened to qaan. Some exceptions like tsa-g-aan (white) exist.

[6] Example: de-g-er is shortened to deer. Some exceptions like ügüi (no) exist.

[7] Transcribed foreign words usually get a vowel prepended. Example: Transcribing Русь (Russia) results in Oros.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]

[5]

[6]

[7]