Talk:City of Liverpool College

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On 14 March 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to The City of Liverpool College. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Mismanagement and no improvement - in fact degrading of a great City's College for the people

The Principal of this College walked into a grade 1 Outstanding Community College and told all the staff that this is not an outstanding college. She had since proved her own words right by taking the College down to grades 4 and then 3 under Ofsted. She then gave herself a £40,000 increase. She had no educational experience, introduced zero hours contracts for qualified teachers and lost millions whilst blaming students and staff - almost suggesting that people from Liverpool do not know or have the ambition to learn. She has hired friends from her church/cult in top positions. She has a £10'000 boardroom table while she sacks staff. She is a disgrace Principallyfailed (talk) 23:32, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

And mosunderstanding the real needs of our local population , our youngsters and adults who really do try to learn, she changed the name from Liverpool Community College so for us all, to City of Liverpool College. Why? To attract businesses because she said they don't understand the word 'Community'...she spent untold hundreds of thousands on this including signs....and she closed courses for local adults wanting to improve their maths and English, closed apprenticeships and worst of all she closed courses for disabled people....she has lost many votes of no confidences... She needs to be sacked.. Principallyfailed (talk) 23:40, 30 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 14 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 14:43, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

City of Liverpool College → The City of Liverpool College – File:The City of Liverpool College Logo.png"The" is a component part of the name, specifically added when the name was changed from Liverpool Community College in 2013, as shown at the college's official website, in newspaper reporting, in Ofsted reporting, the college's logo. Per WP:THE, the entire five words form the official proper name of the college (e.g., The Beatles, "The Invincibles", The Hershey Company), like other UK-based educational institutions: The Sheffield College, The Courtauld Institute of Art, The Academy at Shotton Hall, The Academy of St Nicholas, The Salesian Academy of St John Bosco, The Academy of Music and Sound, The Academy of St Francis of Assisi. Jmg38 (talk) 20:23, 14 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BD2412 T 01:14, 18 April 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal (talk) 12:21, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Looking over their materials, it does seem like "The" is always there and almost always capitalized. Walrasiad (talk) 05:47, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support as well as the logo using "The" which is probably the best indicator at least in terms of primary sources. Also "The" is capitalized in running text by other sources[1][2]. Crouch, Swale (talk) 20:21, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Most of the material published by the institution itself and its affiliates seems to include the "The", but I have not been able to easily find WP:independent reliable sources that talk about it. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 22:58, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

BarrelProof, see, for example: Ofsted's annual reporting on the college, including Inspection of The City of Liverpool College | Inspection dates: 30 January to 2 February 2024; or the listed corporation name at Companies House for The City of Liverpool College LTD | Company number 07779497; or the Liverpool City Council, as part of the Liverpool City Region Combined Authority, prviding information on …the necessary information about what support The City of Liverpool College offers. Jmg38 (talk) 08:18, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

None of those seem like independent sources. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:09, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. As with most of these names, the definite article is not consistently capitalised in sources and the college is also often referred to as City of Liverpool College without a definite article at all. Per WP:OFFICIAL and WP:THE, there is a big difference between what the college's marketing department would like us to call it and what we should call it. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:41, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think the logo is a good way of deciding what the common name is, yes its primary but logos are prominent to users. Crouch, Swale (talk) 18:59, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A logo is a good way to identify a promoted name; it seems less good for identifying the most common name used by those independent of a topic. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:56, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I refer you to my previous comment about marketing departments, which also control logos. No proof of common name whatsoever. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:02, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support, for consistency with the class of institution per other examples cited. Some stuff exists for a reason. BD2412 T 17:45, 22 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Not really, since most of them should probably be moved too! WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:01, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - If all such entities are moved (or a policy is enacted requiring that all be moved), then "should probably be moved" would become a viable argument. Until then, title consistency is a good thing in an encyclopedia. BD2412 T 15:38, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Schools and WikiProject Merseyside have been notified of this discussion. RodRabelo7 (talk) 01:54, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support. While I generally find definite articles in titles annoying, this one seems to be used and capitalised consistently. It's used in their emails. Orange sticker (talk) 10:48, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Necrothesp. Sources dug up for support are not independent. "And the college is also often referred to as City of Liverpool College without a definite article at all". Meanwhile, one of the examples of WP:OTHERSTUFF provided by the nom has been renamed by an RM that agreed to remove the "The" (Courtauld Institute of Art). Another one, Academy of St Francis of Assisi, doesn't use "The" in its opening sentence and hasn't since 22 January 2018. So the OTHERSTUFF isn't stable or supported by an evident consensus. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 18:53, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: Relisting for clearer consensus. BD2412 T 01:14, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Having looked through a number of sources, one typical being https://dcecommercial.co.uk/case-study-city-of-liverpool-college/, I see that while the “The” is often used capitalised in running text, it is dispensable in titles. “The” should be avoided in titles per WP:THE, and this case does not make the threshold for an exception. Regardless, “The” can and should be used in running text in the body of the article. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 09:34, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose as per WP:THE and WP:COMMONNAME. Reliable sources don't consistently use capitalised "The" (or even a the at all^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5] Morwennol (talk) 13:09, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[1] ttps://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jun/08/study-loans-adults-return-college-fund-course

[2] ttps://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/07/when-i-see-kids-vaping-i-warn-them-thats-what-killed-my-daughter

[3] ttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-53835847

[4] ttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-67171142

[5] ttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-59317136

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