Talk:Chrysondyon

Edits

Do not remove references and material, if you have a proposal discuss it here.Megistias (talk) 20:05, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

An example of your mistakes ; "large territories of Dassaretae or the Illyrian Dassaretii[7][8] and was part of the Illyrian tribe of Attintantes"

• Dassaretae were an ancient Greek tribe
• The Cambridge Ancient History, Volume 6: The Fourth Century BC by D. M. Lewis (Editor), John Boardman (Editor), Simon Hornblower (Editor), M. Ostwald (Editor), 1994, ISBN 0521233488, page 423, "These Dassareti not to be confused with the Greek speaking Dexari or Dessaretae of the ,"
• Dassaretii were an Illyrian tribe, located very far from this region.
• The Cambridge Ancient History, Volume 6: The Fourth Century BC by D. M. Lewis (Editor), John Boardman (Editor), Simon Hornblower (Editor), M. Ostwald (Editor),1994,ISBN 0521233488,page 423,"These Dassareti not to be confused with the Greek speaking Dexari or Dessaretae lay between the Dardani and the coastal people of the Ardiaei,"
• Atintanes, were not located here, one location is north of Via Egnatia and the other to the south.Both are unrelated geographically with Kodrion.Megistias (talk) 20:18, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Next you use this "A classical and topographical tour through Greece: during the years 1801, 1805 and 1806, Volume 1 By Edward Dodwell | Rodwell & Martin, 1819, page 16" to claim this, When then “Kingdom of Illyria” was conquered by the Romans and queen Teuta was deposed in 229 B.C., her step-son Pinnes was permitted to reign anyway by giving up several lands and cities, Kodrion being among them

• A 1819 topographical tour dealing with 19th century Greece?Megistias (talk) 20:28, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Response

I don’t refuse to talk at all Megisitias, I just am not so experienced and accustomed with the talk feature; I was looking for it at first place when you deleted my edits.

With all the respect young man, it's truly shameful of you to accuse me of misusing sources, since it's something that actually you have done in the first place: whereas you can't find any obstruction or deformation on my text relating to the sources I had mentioned. My first edit, I admit, included the deletion of the “Ancient Greek” (the reference was a complete misguide for the reader since it never mentioned the city as being “Ancient Greek”), your self-made image of the ancient Epirus (that is a deformation as well and nominated for deletion several times even before I created an account and knew how to edit sth here) and the last part that mentioned the article of being a “stub” since it wasn’t a stub anymore with [[[20 references]]]. Then after you rudely deleted my edit I only added my info and materials without touching any of your references, nor your image, except for the hyperlink “Ancient Greek”... I doubt that the late accomplished honorable British scholar Nicholas Hammond, who was aware of the old written books of the distinguished ancient authors and who knew Greek language and culture, as well as Greece’s neighbor Albania also from his travels and experience in both these two countries, would fall into such a goof as calling Kodrion a Greek city after the documentations that is left for its origin from the [[[Ancient Greek Scholars]]] that I will mention after some lines...

• In Kodrion .... ancient Greek you put as a reference Epirus: the geography, the ancient remains, the history and topography of Epirus and adjacent areas by Nicholas Geoffrey Lemprière Hammond, 1967, page 607 where about Chrysondyon is written that, I cite: “...Chrysondyon and Gertous, probably lay on Scerdilaidas’ route between Lake Lychnidus and Antipatrea, i.e. in the upper valley of Devoli”

We don’t learn much from this only the location and that Scerdilaidas was Illyrian ruler. After a couple of rows, in the same page of the reference, we read: “...and that Macedonia was conterminous with Dassaretis. The extent of the Dassaretis is unknown. Presumably it came east of the Lake Lychnidus (the Macedonian frontier at Pylon was east of the lake) and Scerdilaidas entered the north-east...” Hammond on Dassaretis so according to him no fixed location for Dassaretis... anyway nothing to do with the reference mentioned in the article! I didn’t place any tribe in a different location, I only stated authentic references. I didn’t use a tour guide from 1819 for Greece but I used as a reference “A classical and topographical tour through Greece: during the years 1801, 1805 and 1806, Volume 1 By Edward Dodwell | Rodwell & Martin, 1819, page 16” which, if you’re not acquainted with, is not a tourist guide, but is a normal way of how books referring ethnography and geography were written in those times. And to deny the claims of another editor of Kodrion who stated that my references were totalitarian, I don’t believe England of this time of enlightment was a totalitarian country(!) Anyway this was [[[1 among 14 other references]]] for such a short article and if you care that much as to see all of them without deleting it brutally, you’d understand I haven’t implied anything else than those stated by others cleverer than me centuries before. I have truly studied thoroughly Kodrion’s issue and feel such and pitiful to show the deformation you claim with a reference on sth that doesn’t exist there and nowhere else.

• Read here, this is an undeniable authentic proof that comprises all references and origin of Kodrion or Codrion:

[http://books.google.com/books?id=H2xHAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA209&dq=Leake,+Northern+Greece,+vol.+iii.+p.+326,+seq&ei=VVd1S8i4E5ryygSext3NBA&cd=1#v=onepage&q=dassaretae&f=false Dictionary of Greek and Roman geography Dictionary of Greek and Roman Geography, Sir William Smith, Little, Brown & Co., 1865 –Page 755] DASSARETAE, DASSARETII (Strab. VII p.318; Ptol. III 13 § 32; Appian, Illyr. I; Mela, II 3 § 11; Plin. III 23 s. 26), an Illyrian people whose position can be well ascertained, from their having occupied the great valley which contained the lake of Lychnitis.......]

So there are five of the most famous and acclaimed authors of antiquity, all saying that Dassaretae or Dassaretii were Illyrian, as well as Codrion:

• Greek Strabo (63/64 BC – ca. AD 24)
• Romano Greek Claudius Ptolemaeus or Ptolemy (c. AD 90 – c. 168)
• Romano Greek Appian (c. 95 – c. 165)
• Roman Gaius Plinus Secundus or Pliny the Elder 23 CE – August 25, 79
• Roman Pomponius Mela (? – 45 A.D.)

Three of these worldly famous scholars of antiquity have your own same ethnicity. You unfairly claimed I misused the references but you can click on the link of the original scanned book. Don’t you believe them? You deleted all the references I added, supposedly they didn’t suit your idea, what about all these? We can go together to Athens and Rome’s National Libraries and Archives and find them and read them with our own eyes and mind.

Or we can buy airplane tickets and fly to Albania and see with our own eyes and touch with our own hands the relics of the ancient city’s castle and the tile stamps of the local landlords and manufacturers bearing the Illyrian names of [[[Bato]]], [[[Trito]]] etc. Also there was a very nice architectural element still on foot: an old example of barrel vault. All these are attested from the excavations that were conducted by your neighbor state in 1960, [[[Megistias]]], at the top of a hill in a little town called Gramsh.

• What about the name Kodrion? Any doubt for its Illyrian origin? I suppose you live in Greece and as far as I’ve heard there are many Albanians living or working there maybe you have friends among them... go and ask anyone to tell you what that name means... Hill in their language, isn’t it?

About the name Dassaretae and Dassaretii all these authors say it to be a synonym. Maybe their name was the same as the Dassaretii in Dardania that you mentioned before, but let’s not make word game, they’re both Illyrians.

We are living in the third millennium and it doesn’t honor us to manipulate the history of our ancestors. I provided you references from the time of Jesus Christ, not 1994 books as you did, in a time when, unfortunately, much more than history can be corrupted. I really do hope you’ll understand them and believe their authenticity. They said, I’m just repeating!

It such a pitiful phenomenon to see that you are up to misleading through an untrue history a whole world that when writing Dassaretae in Google or looks for an ancient map, the first to appear is Wikipedia and most of the articles linked to this search are copyed from Wikipedia as well, that means sth untrue as this tribe being ancient Greek. I have studied Minoan civilization and prepared a serious thing on it and I was and still am amazed by their ingenuous skills and heritage they left to the world. All the world knows the great contribution of ancient Greek culture in human civilization and culture as a whole, but don’t abuse with this and go beyond borders and make Greek sth that is not.

For the knowledge’s sake and humanity’s right for proper culture and information do not delete such an article like that. Otherwise Wikipedia is becoming an information’s KGB on the web, but I don’t want it, you don’t want it Megistias, do you?

I had added also advises for visiting it, how to go etc and my last edits only added more info didn’t change anything except for what I mentioned.

Rely on our ancestor’s true facts not on manipulations.

I am seeking your consent for what I wrote here, so we can display a proper article for such a place of archaeological and cultural importance. I’m not adding it violently, but also if you’re against the real authenticity and want to throw “ashes on people’s eyes” I am not willing to stay and watch.

Regards, Empathictrust (talk) 00:05, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

These ancient writers are Primary sources and nomatter what they say, one way or the other they fall short of secondary sources.

• Dictionary of Greek and Roman geography ....1865... is outdated.

1. Dassaretae were an ancient Greek tribe
2. The Cambridge Ancient History, Volume 6: The Fourth Century BC by D. M. Lewis (Editor), John Boardman (Editor), Simon Hornblower (Editor), M. Ostwald (Editor), 1994, ISBN 0521233488, page 423, "These Dassareti not to be confused with the Greek speaking Dexari or Dessaretae of the ,"
3. Dassaretii were an Illyrian tribe, located very far from this region.
4. The Cambridge Ancient History, Volume 6: The Fourth Century BC by D. M. Lewis (Editor), John Boardman (Editor), Simon Hornblower (Editor), M. Ostwald (Editor),1994,ISBN 0521233488,page 423,"These Dassareti not to be confused with the Greek speaking Dexari or Dessaretae lay between the Dardani and the coastal people of the Ardiaei,"

Atintanes, were not located here, one location is north of Via Egnatia and the other to the south.Both are unrelated geographically with Kodrion

• "buy airplane tickets and fly to Albania?" I am not even going to comment that segment. Megistias (talk) 00:23, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

The sources in the article exhibit that Kodrion was located in the territory of the ancient Greek Dassareatae and that it was once of their cities.Megistias ::(talk) 00:45, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Chrysondion does not seem to be identical with Codrion

There must be a huge misunderstanding here. I think no other source, except for the outdated William Smith's dictionary, suggests that Chrysondyon and Codrion were alternative names of the same city. Article itself brings contradictory evidence. First it says about excavations, fortifications and coins, then, in the last sentence, it says about a possible location.

Barrington Atlas and N.G.Hammond do not support the thesis that Chrysondyon = Codrion. So this is an article about Codrion. I will wait here for a response before proceeding in the renaming of the article.--Dipa1965 (talk) 08:11, 10 December 2016 (UTC)