Talk:Christoph Frankopan

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HansM (talk) 22:11, 1 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Krsto and the Battle of Mohacs

The story of Krsto Frankopan is interesting

Krsto Frankopan left King Lajos, after his punishment for his fight with László Szalkai, during which Szalkai pulled his beard and Frankopan slapped him in the face, and entered the service of Ferdinand. Hungarian nobles knew that he was an excellent general with much experience, and made great promises to him for his return to command the army. Eventually, Frankopan agreed

Frankopan agreed and began his travel to join the king. Frankopan warned King Louis to avoid an open battle with the Turks before the troops (Transylvanians, Croats, Czechs, Germans) arrived to the king. According to Frankopan, “the king should wait either in Buda or in some other place further away from the enemy until all the forces and auxiliary forces of the country come together.”

After the battle of Mohacs, on September 5, Frankopan wrote to Bishop Ferenc Josefics, reporting on the defeat of the king. Frangepán regrets the loss of Louis, but according to him, the Hungarian regimes that risked their king and the country deserved a “lesson from the Sultan.” [longer quote]

This article has good info with references. Maybe a Hungarian speaker can add this to the article here.

http://mohacsicsata.hupont.hu/17/akik-nem-vettek-reszt-a-csataban

Interesting excerpt from Frankopan's report

„E csapás hasznos volt, mert ha a magyarok a török császáron diadalmaskodnak, ki élhetne tovább alattuk, ki maradhatna meg közöttük, s lenne-e határa kevélységüknek? Ha mi idejében megérkezhettünk volna a harcba, mi lettünk volna az elsők, kik azon rossz rend miatt, mely, mint halljuk, seregünkben uralkodott, elvesztünk volna az ütközetben. Halljuk, hogy mindenki kapitány volt, s ugyancsak ügyetlen-rendetlenül rohantak a harcnak. De ez megtanítja őket, miszerint jövendőre szelídebbek, s kapitányaiknak engedelmesebbek legyenek.” A levelet idézi Jászay Pál. Jászay: A magyar nemzet i. m. 26. Ovo.Je.Istina (talk) 17:02, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fight between Frankopan and Szalkai

At the diet of Hatvan in 1525, after his rescue of Jajce, Archbishop László (Ladislaus) Szalkai, and Krsto Frankopan have an disagreement that turns into an argument and then a physical fight. Szalkai rudely called Frankopan a liar. Insulted by Szalkai's attack on his honour, Frankopan shouts back, the argument escalates, and becomes physical. The Magyar Archbishop gets carried away and grabs Frankopan’s beard with both hands. The Croatian Count retaliated and, by some stories, slapped the Archbishop on the face, and by others, he punched the Archbishop in the face with a clenched fist. Nobles pulled apart the two angry men.

In the evening, when King Lajos returned from the hunt, he was told about the fight. Because Szalkai was his royal chancellor and the Primate of Hungary, Lajos had to side with him and therefore asked Frankopan to apologize and make peace with Szalkai, but Frankopan refused. On the insistence of the Magyar priests accompanying the archbishop, for insulting the honour of Hungary by hitting Szalkai, Krsto Frankopan is taken into custody and held in a tower of the castle of Buda, where he remained imprisoned.

Three days later, after Croatian nobles vouched for him, and Queen Mary, via the papal nuncio, helped Frankopan and Szalkai reconcile, and Frankopan was released from prison. Ovo.Je.Istina (talk) 17:20, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rescue of Jajce

In 1525, the fortress of Jajce was heavily besieged and running out of food and supplies. Krsto Frankopan volunteers to lead a resupply mission through occupied territory in Bosna. Frankopan arrived at Jajce on June 11, a battle was fought, Husrev Bey defeated and the fortress resupplied.

News of the successful resupply of Jajce quickly spread across Croatia and Hungary. The royal court was ecstatic, Frankopan called the "Hero of Jajce" and a grand celebration was held for one of the biggest victories of the decade.

The following tells of Frankopan's life and this fight, but is not a credible source. Maybe a Hungarian speaker knows of a credible source that can be referenced.

https://www.hungarianottomanwars.com/essays/frangepan-kristof-aka-christoph-frankopan-krsto-frankopan-brinjski/ Ovo.Je.Istina (talk) 17:38, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Prisoner of war

In 1512, Krsto and his father fought against the Venetians in an attempt to free their former family property, the island of Krk. During 1513 and 1514, he took Monfalcone, Cividale del Friuli, Udine and almost all of Friuli from the Venetians, but soon lost it. He was captured and kapt as a prisoner of war in Venice from 1514 - 1519. During this time his wife came to live with him. After escaping from prison he was again in the military service of the Habsburgs. In 1520, Emperor Charles V confirmed his possessions and appointed him military commander of Istria.

From 1523 he stayed in Croatia again, where together with his father he tried to get Senj and other family properties that were taken from his family in 1469 by King Matthias Corvinus.

Basic details here in Croatian

https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krsto_I._Frankapan_Brinjski Ovo.Je.Istina (talk) 17:53, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

From Hungarian Wikipedia - maybe someone can do a better translation

https://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frangepán_Kristóf

He was captured during the attack of Marano (Gradiška) in June 1514 and imprisoned in La Torresella prison of the Doge's Palace in Venice (today it houses a collection of weapons) until 1519.[7] His wife joined him in 1517. During his stay in prison, he printed a German translation of a Roman breviary decorated with woodcuts in 1518, in one of which he is kneeling under the image of the Virgin with his wife, who is said to have translated the text of the breviary into German.[5][8] In the same year, he carved an inscription into the side of the prison window recess with his and his wife's names.[7] He still hoped to be released, but in 1519 the Venetians handed him over to the French king Francis I, who wanted to exchange him with a cousin who was held captive by Charles V, so he was imprisoned again in Milan, where Apollonia joined him.[5][9]

The seriously ill Apollonia died in Milan on September 4, 1519. [7] Kristóf buried him in Istria, near Koper. On October 17, 1519, he managed to escape by bribing two of the castellan's servants. He arrived in Postojna on November 5, where his followers greeted him with cheers.[7] After escaping from prison, he was once again in the military service of the Habsburgs. Ovo.Je.Istina (talk) 22:30, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oratio ad Adrianum Sextum (1523)

On November 19, 1522, at the Reichstag of Nürnberg, Krsto's father Count Bernardin Frankopan gave a speech titled Oratio pro Croatia (Speech for Croatia) asking for Habsburg help in the fight against the Osmanlı invasion.

In 1523, Krsto Frankopan gave "Oratio ad Adrianum Sextum" to Pope Adrian VI (Hadrianus)  .

The full English translation, as found in “Frangipani's Ring: an event in the life of Henry Thode”, written by Henry Thode, and translated by J.F.C.L., 1900.

Ovo.Je.Istina (talk) 18:01, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Haudegen

Krsto Frankopan was a truly exceptional man.

To many people of the time, Krsto Frankopan is the epitome of the German concept of Haudegen (a warhorse): a daredevil, a truly brave, daring, and skilled man that strives to excel. Centuries later, he is seen as one of the most romantic personalities of the time. Romantic, in this sense, is a strong emotional appeal to heroic and inspirational deeds. Romantic heroism is about duty and chivalry that is larger than life – it is exciting, perhaps even a bit irrational and unrealistic. Ovo.Je.Istina (talk) 18:02, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What killed Krsto?

We know that Frankopan died of a "gut shot" but there is a lack of clarity about what caused the mortal wound. If it was a "cannon", even a small cannon, it is doubtful that he would have survived even for a short bit of time. Must likely it was a "wall gun" which is a large arquebus/musket.

Ovo.Je.Istina (talk) 18:13, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ferdinand's reaction to Krsto's death

It is said that after Ferdinand heard of Krsto’s death he proclaimed with joy, “Glory be to God!” because he knows the Croat could have been a formidable foe. Ovo.Je.Istina (talk) 18:17, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Changing loyalties

An interesting element of the time is how often nobles switched loyalties.

Though Krsto was born in Croatia/Dalmatia and was a subject of the Croatian-Magyar king, Krsto entered Habsburg service. After escaping from prison, he returns to the service of King Lajos. But then he gets pissed off after the fight with Szalkai - and not receiving Senj - he leaves Lajos and returns to Ferdinand. Then he leaves Ferdinand and joins Zapolya. Why does he return to Zapolya? Probably because Zapolya promised to give him Senj.

Ovo.Je.Istina (talk) 18:20, 29 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]