Talk:Christmas cake

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Opening Paragraph Seems Wrong

It says 'Christmas cake is a type of fruitcake served...' but most of the examples provided on the page are totally not fruitcakes. Perhaps a more general one could be written. Something like this, but better, if anyone wants to take a shot at it:

Cakes and pastries of various sorts are traditionally given or consumed on or about Christmastime in numerous countries. In some, the baked product is explicitly called a "Christmas Cake" (or variations in the local language), and may not be gifted or consumed aside from special occasions such as this. In the UK and many former British colonies, fruitcake varieties are most commonly associated with this practice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shoobe01 (talk • contribs) 23:39, 6 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is wrong, but this is Wikipedia. For example, the Bûche de Noël does not contain any fruit. So it's not a fruitcake. The definition given (fruitcake) is British: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Christmas%20cake).

Untitled

This page ought to remain at 'Christmas Cake,' not 'Christmas cake.' Njál 13:43, 1 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

All of the links to this page point to "Christmas cake" indicating "cake" is not a proper noun, so it should be lower case. Jonathunder 16:29, 1 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think 'Christmas Cake' as a phrase is a proper noun (Christmas Cake in general) and 'Christmas cake' is a common noun (many Christmas cakes). The first is more appropriate for an article title. Njál 14:12, 18 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a place for the old Irish song "Miss Fogarty's Christmas Cake"? Saxophobia 21:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC) http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Hymns_and_Carols/miss_fogartys_christmas_cake.htm[reply]

Whisky Dundee Cake

Within the article, there is a reference to the "Whisky Dundee", and in the External Links section at the bottom of the page, there is a link to recipes for "Dundee Cake". Both names are references to the "Whisky Dundee Cake", but there is no explicit connection made between them. Not everybody is familiar with both names, so should this be changed to clarify the association? -Elusive Pete 21:58, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the British and Commonwealth section needs removed and rewritten. In Britain a Christmas Cake is a rich fruit cake with marzipan and hard white icing, sometimes decorated with Christmas themed cake decorations. I don't recognize any of the other stuff mentioned in the article as being anything to do with what constitutes a Christmas Cake in the UK. And by the way, a Dundee Cake is not a Christmas cake either, and neither is a Christmas Pudding, which are both totally different food items - I suggest removal of this section completely if it can't be improved, and if citations can't be made - because at the moment, it's total b()ll()cks:--31.53.21.176 (talk) 16:10, 17 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

CC in Japan

From the lede:

Christmas cake is a type of fruitcake served at Christmas time in... Japan...

But it goes on to say that CC in Japan is a sponge cake. So it's not a type of fruitcake served in Japan, is it? (Sanity checking here before I change it.) Marnanel (talk) 17:37, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Christmas cake as a Japanese term

It might be worth mentioning that Christmas cake is also used in Japan as a term for an unmarried woman past the age of 25. In Japan, there's a social stigma that states that if a woman isn't married by that age, she must be undesirable. The term comes about due to the logic that nobody would want to eat a Christmas cake after December 25th. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.105.104.133 (talk) 15:27, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I just added this without seeing this comment first. your wording might be better actually. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.251.59.135 (talk) 21:02, 5 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The sentences explaining this cultural term were completely removed from the article, along with two references at this edit. The fact that women in Japan are sometimes referred to as Christmas cakes is certainly part of the "sum of all knowledge" and should be included in WP. This article is the place to put that fact because when someone runs across that cultural term, this is where they will come for the answer. Sparkie82 (t•c) 22:01, 28 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you take a look at the history, you can see the problems. There were two references. The first was a blog, which does not pass WP:RS. The second explicitly said that the term isn't used anymore, primarily because the average age for marrying in Japan is now somewhere closer to 30. We don't need to maintain a statement that says, "This used to be a slang term, but isn't anymore" when we have only one reference. Lastly, it is unlikely that someone will run across the cultural term; my own estimate is that most Japanese people under the age of thirty probably don't even know the term. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:12, 29 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like the main issue here is the source I chose. A google search returns about 20,000 hits on the subject, so it shouldn't be too hard to find a source that meets all the requirements of WP:RS and WP:N. Sparkie82 (t•c) 22:02, 30 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, if you find something current, let us know; if all we can find are historical or "we don't do that any more" statements, we could still possibly include it and say that the term used to be used in a derogatory way and note why it isn't any more. Qwyrxian (talk) 08:13, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How about:

In Japan, women had traditionally been expected to marry at a young age^[1] and those who were unmarried after the age of 25 were sometimes scornfully referred to as Christmas cakes (unsold after the 25th).^[2] The term first became popular during the 1980s^[3] but has since become passé^[4] because contemporary Japanese women often remain unmarried without stigmatization.'^[5] Sparkie82 (t•c) 07:01, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That...is absolutely outstanding. I completely support the inclusion of that in this article. Great research and sourcing! Qwyrxian (talk) 04:51, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm living in Japan for 30 years and counting, and never ever heard that. Not even once really. 210.139.73.28 (talk) 13:57, 28 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd prefer the Japanese term section get it's own page and have a disambiguation page added. It seems completely out of place stuck at the end of an article about cake. --Chuck Baggett (talk) 21:28, 4 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'd normally agree, for an unrelated word, but in this case the usage is closely related to the view that the real Christmas cake loses its appeal past its time. If it got to be more than a couple of paragrams, and there is sufficient debate about the topic, maybe it'd make sense to split it. GreenReaper (talk) 11:04, 20 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Orenstein, Peggy (July 01, 2001), "Parasites in Prêt-à-Porter", The New York Times {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
^ Wiseman, Paul (June 2, 2004), "No sex please — we're Japanese", USA TODAY, retrieved January 3, 2013
^ Naoko Takemaru (2010), Women in the Language and Society of Japan: The Linguistic Roots of Bias (book), McFarland, p. 158, retrieved January 3, 2013
^ WATANABE, TERESA (January 06, 1992), "In Japan, a 'Goat Man' or No Man : Women are gaining more clout in relationships. As they become more independent, they demand a gentle yet strong, supportive and high-achieving spouse.", Los Angeles Times, retrieved January 3, 2013 {{citation}}: Check date values in: |publication-date= (help)
^ Tanaka, Yukiko (1995), Contemporary Portraits of Japanese Women (book), p. 24, retrieved January 3, 2013

Apple Creme Christmas Cake?

I have removed the following paragraph describing "Apple Creme Christmas Cake" as I can find absolutely no mention of such a thing on the internet aside from in this article and direct quotations of it.

"At the other end of the Christmas cake continuum, the apple crème Christmas cake is a rich mix of finely sliced apples, raisins and other fruit, with eggs, cream cheese, and heavy whipping cream."

86.132.192.56 (talk) 19:16, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Edits reverted

"Christmas cake is a type of fruitcake [1] served at Christmas time in many[citation needed] countries.[2]"

I added [1] to show that it's a British definition. I added "citation needed" for "many".
[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Christmas%20cake

"Some cakes listed below do not contain fruit. For example, the Bûche de Noël does not contain any fruit ; it is not a fruitcake[5]."

I added the above sentence.

For some reason, my edits have been reverted without explanation.

[1] Orenstein, Peggy (July 01, 2001), "Parasites in Prêt-à-Porter", The New York Times {{citation}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)

[2] Wiseman, Paul (June 2, 2004), "No sex please — we're Japanese", USA TODAY, retrieved January 3, 2013

[3] Naoko Takemaru (2010), Women in the Language and Society of Japan: The Linguistic Roots of Bias (book), McFarland, p. 158, retrieved January 3, 2013

[4] WATANABE, TERESA (January 06, 1992), "In Japan, a 'Goat Man' or No Man : Women are gaining more clout in relationships. As they become more independent, they demand a gentle yet strong, supportive and high-achieving spouse.", Los Angeles Times, retrieved January 3, 2013 {{citation}}: Check date values in: |publication-date= (help)

[5] Tanaka, Yukiko (1995), Contemporary Portraits of Japanese Women (book), p. 24, retrieved January 3, 2013

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