Talk:Christ's College, Cambridge/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions about Christ's College, Cambridge. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Christ's Pieces

I always wondered whether Christ's College owns the "Christ's Pieces" right next to it? And if so, why don't they close them to the public? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 131.111.212.69 (talk • contribs) .

This page says that it belongs to the city, having been acquired from Jesus College in 1886. Stephen Turner 13:23, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Given Christ's lack of space and living accomodation, I cant imagine so. They would damn well use it if they did own it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.86.162.130 (talk • contribs) .

CCPQS

Does anyone have any substantive evidence for "CCPQS". I'm at Christ's and I haven't even heard rumours of it here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.232.250.88 (talk • contribs) .

I've never heard of it either (I was at Christ's from 1988 to 1996) and I can't find any evidence on Google apart from Wikipedia mirrors. It sounds like a myth to me. Should we remove it? Stephen Turner (Talk) 09:00, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I did not come across it in the 60s. Let's remove it and if anyone wants to restore it, they can be challenged for a source! Op. Deo 14:49, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Clearly you are unable to use Google...—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.7.176.7 (talk) 14 Nov 2006

I'm sorry, if you haven't heard of a secret society, then that's kind of the point isn't it?

Dashed good!

Nice solution for the dashes - was contemplating hyphens myself, but these are much better. And um, by the way, hi. I was wondering if you were Steve "Luke R*****, fast breeder" Turner – and there you go giving your dates. I'm a mathmo/HisPisser from the year above you... JackyR 13:54, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's me. Were you one of the ones who filled my room with newspaper? Literally filled. Full. Stephen Turner (Talk) 14:06, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Tragically, I've never even heard of this. Would certainly have helped if I had... ;-) JackyR 14:14, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Good to see some proper typography here - I approve of the accuracy, which makes this article much cleaner and more readable.

Is there a project under way to replace hyphens with en and em rules? Actually, does anyone know what is supposed to be the recommended typographic style for dates, events, etc? - there doesn't appear to be any consistency anywhere.... Agendum 12:16, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

There's WP:MOSDASH, although it's often not observed in practice. Stephen Turner (Talk) 12:44, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

alumni

I just removed Robert Jenkinson because he was at Christ Church, Oxford. I don't think Nicholas/Nicolas Saunderson was technically an alumnus. He certainly never undertook an undergraduate degree. He did however live in Christ's with a friend I believe. More checks necessary methinks.

You're probably right about Nicholas Saunderson. I added him because he's mentioned in the leaflet given out by Christ's College themselves, but it does appear that he may not have studied there. I agree that more research is needed. Agendum 00:11, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

SCR

I'm adding a section on notable Senior Members, or perhaps just Masters, as it seems daft not to mention significant college figures just because they weren't students here. JackyR 15:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

and other people

Sir Anthony Caro (b. 1924) — sculptor

Christ's not mentioned in any of the brief bios/WP article I've just looked at. Removed till someone can confirmJackyR 16:04, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Caro read engineering at Christ's in the early 40s and has been an honorary fellow since 1979. See http://www.anthonycaro.org/frames-related/biography.htm for example. LeBofSportif 16:37, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Well-spotted that (wo)man. JackyR | Talk 23:49, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Alumnus category

Since there is an alumnus category, maybe we should pick and choose who appears in the article (tho' I leave the squabbling to anyone who fancies it). The fuller list would then be at Category:Alumni of Christ's College, Cambridge. I've put an HTML note in the text about this, as most contributors won't come to Talk first. If anyone disagrees, please feel free to remove the note – but also to propose another solution for the burgeoning page size. Cheers, JackyR | Talk 19:59, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Is there a limit on the page size? It seems quite short to me compared with some smaller & less interesting educational institutions. If the list is pruned, I'd suggest consideration was given to making sure that a broad range of professions was represented, as I think it's easy to give the impression the college is overly academic. Espresso Addict 22:43, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

For limits on page sizes, go to my (disgracefully long) talk page and hit Edit: you get a lovely warning about the number of Kb the thing takes up (must archive...). It's actually an issue for people on dial-up connections, of whom there are many (just not always in the UK). And from the readability point of view, it wouldn't make a good article to have it mostly an alumnus list, as could happen: whereas it wouldn't hurt to have substantially more on architecture and history, IMHO.

The reason I'm suggesting this now, rather than waiting for it to become an actual problem, is that unless you play with code, shifting something from a list to a category is unbelievably tiresome: it involves opening each member of the list and pasting+typing a category + alphabetical name into each one. And I'd rather not do that. JackyR | Talk 23:55, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Sure! And I'd agree there should be proportionately more on the topics you mention, especially on architecture. Espresso Addict 00:11, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Was that almost an offer to write some? ;-D JackyR | Talk 02:03, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Heh. Totally not my area of expertise! -- though there's some stuff buried at the college site that wouldn't be hard to adapt. What would be really nice would be photos! I fear I don't have any that would be suitable. Espresso Addict 02:17, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

~~Oh that's puts me totally to shame: I'll shove some stuff in. And there are enough alumni working on this page that we're bound to have pics, so don't worry about that.~~ OK, re-reading that, you mean you have pics but don't want to put any in: yeh, understand the prob... I've also been a Bad Editor and added unsourced material, but put cite requests by them. JackyR | Talk 16:06, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Most of my good ones are obvious wedding photos! I'll drop a note in my livejournal; there are a couple of other ex-Christ's readers as well as several people who currently live in Cambridge and might help out. Oh, and great stuff on the additions. Espresso Addict 17:06, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

For long lists of Alumni, other cambridge colleges do worse, eg St John's College, Cambridge and I'm sure some other US colleges do the same thing. Not that I'm saying a boring list of names is a good thing, but Christ's is certainly not the only offender!LeBofSportif 07:49, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

On photos, a friend (& another alumnus) has just offered to take some photos for the page. Espresso Addict 18:06, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Architecture (now Buildings)

I took up JackyR's challenge and added a section on architecture (sourced from the college website & Cambridge 2000 project), but as I know nothing of the field it undoubtedly needs input from an expert. I'd love to "quote" some of the sarcastic comments about New Court from students who had to live in it, but I don't know of a published source. Any ideas? Also, does anyone have any photos that we could use? Espresso Addict 03:25, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't think there are any cellars beneath the fellows' building! This rather invalidates one of the points in the article. LeBofSportif 18:16, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

This was one of the last areas in the college to gain modern heating, due to fears for the wine cellars beneath.^{[citation needed]}

Yeah, I've always wondered where the access was: I'll remove the comment. But I was told this by (I think) Dr Sedley, who lived in A and was cheesed off about it... JackyR | Talk 15:28, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Thomas Plume

I'm not sure if he meets the criteria for famous alumni -- opinion, anyone? Espresso Addict 23:54, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Very definitely. There's a Q of whether to put him on the college page, or just in the category, but his notability relates to the university, so college is a reasonable context. Feel free to disagree... :-) JackyR | Talk 00:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard of the Professorship, but I don't have any strong objection to including him. The inclusion of the Professorship in the list text is certainly useful. Espresso Addict 00:52, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

My own feeling is that an alumnus is worthy of inclusion if and only if they have their own Wikipedia article. That avoids us having to invent our own standard of notability, which is always a minefield. Stephen Turner (Talk) 09:08, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I'm cynical about that as a standard having spent some time hanging round on AfD, but agree otherwise it's difficult. Espresso Addict 02:53, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I was familiar with the professorship which is definitely notable or at the very least has notable professors, but I did not previously know a Christ's man started it. I think that was a notable historical act which has a relevance today and in this list. Op. Deo 09:35, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm much happier with inclusion with JackyR's insertion. Espresso Addict 02:53, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Photo of Typewriter needed

This article would benefit from a photo of the Typewriter. Maybe someone could take one?

Stephen Turner (Talk) 19:34, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Images of the Lasdun Building and Third Court added. I am happy to take any more if needs be. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrheathcliff (talk • contribs)

Great, thanks! Stephen Turner (Talk) 23:04, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Wadham College?

It seems to me a bit bizarre to have Christ's College in the category Wadham College, Oxford. Does anybody else agree? --Auximines 11:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, agreed - totally inappropriate use of a category. I've deleted it - I don't believe it requires further discussion. The "sister college" information is already in the infobox.Rlfb 13:06, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Adams House, Harvard?

Has someone got a reference for Adams House, Harvard being sistered with Christ's? I can't find any evidence with a quick Google search. Stephen Turner (Talk) 13:16, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

No, nothing about it. Anyway, the "sister college" thing is an oxbridge thing, as per (the unreferenced) List of Oxbridge sister colleges. If someone can provide proper evidence, they can put Adams House, Harvard back. Rlfb 21:33, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Kelvin Bowkett, Senior Tutor "In around the 1930's a system developed in England whereby most of the Colleges at the University of Cambridge and the University of Oxford paired up with a sister College at the other University....Similar pairings have since become established between Christ's College and Branford College at Yale and Adam's House (and more recently also North House) at Harvard." See http://www.yale.edu/branford/about.html AWO 16:09, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Lasdun Building Photo

Has any one got or can they take a photo of the Lasdun Building under better lighting conditions? Op. Deo 14:40, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Kieran West

I'd like a consenus on whether Kieran West belongs on the list of alumni. Five times recently, anonymous editors have deleted him. I've restored him three times, and two other editors have restored him the other times. If we establish a consensus on this talk page, it might be helpful. Thanks.

Stephen Turner (Talk) 08:06, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

A tricky call, but I vote no. Surrounded on the list by the likes of Smuts, Snow, Whiteley and Williams, I just don't think he belongs. I can't imagine even 1% of the population would recognise his name. --Auximines 21:23, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Or on the other side, I cite John James Cowperthwaite! Actually, my real view is higher up this page, at #Thomas Plume. I think we shouldn't get into deciding notability on this page because articles which try and do that have a constant battle and constant arguments. We should list anyone with a Wikipedia article. Stephen Turner (Talk) 19:25, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

No we shouldn't, Category:Alumni of Christ's College, Cambridge gives us that already. I'd remove Cowperthwaite as well, myself. And John Healey. And ... --Auximines 20:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

If that were the consensus, I would prefer to remove the whole list and replace it with a link to the category. I have just seen too many arguments on too many pages where people get heated about whether X is or is not more notable than Y, and whether Z is or is not above the imagined threshold. It's as bad as writing a wedding guest list. Stephen Turner (Talk) 20:52, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, you did ask! --Auximines 21:01, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

It's a fair cop! I guess I only realised later that there was a general question behind it. Stephen Turner (Talk) 22:05, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I thought the threshold for an alumnus to be "famous" was, roughly speaking, satisfied if they have a wikipedia article about them. Moreover, to the Christ's College community (of which I am a former member), Kieran West was regarded as an important alumnus - albeit a recent one. Surely, therefore, his inclusion in the list is secure? Any more deletions by anonymous editors who haven't stated their case here first should be harshly dealt with... Rlfb 22:22, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok... this could go on forever, as you say, and no doubt sooner or later people will start falling foul of the three revert rule, possibly including me. I agree with Stephen Turner, and propose that either:

we remove the whole list from the page and just direct people to the category, or
we keep the list with the rule that an alumnus is famous (i.e. included) if and only if they have a wikipedia page.

Of these two, I prefer the second route. I would rather, however, prefer a more common-sense approach whereby it is, to me at least, almost always obvious whether a person deserves a front-page mention or not. Sadly, some people don't appear capable of such thought... At the same time, deleting someone because you've never heard of them is not acceptable: notability is not solely a function of the number of people who know about the subject. Rlfb 19:37, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Belatedly noticed this discussion (I think I must have unwatched the page by accident some months back) -- I added Kieran West, based on several other college pages (eg John's) which listed Olympic gold medallists. Not to get into notability, which I agree is a minefield, but I think it's nice if the list reflects a range of disciplines from arts to sports to politics &c&c, and there are no other sports persons. Espresso Addict 11:37, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

If you're comparing Kieran West with Chris Brasher then we're getting into the realms of the ridiculous. Including West solely because there are no other sportsmen is also absurd. --Auximines 13:09, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

On a slight aside to this debate (but related to the perceived relative importance of individual entries) does the fact that the rugby team went on a tour to Canada really warrant an entry for the first paragraph on this page? I'm sure that an establishment with over 500 years of history has more significant goings-on than a group of lads going on an overseas sports trip - like one individual going to the Olympics and winning gold perhaps? :-) BrisbanePom (talk) 12:39, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Obviously true. I've reverted it. Stephen Turner (Talk) 15:53, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Motto

On 1 May 2006, 131.111.233.218 changed the motto back to "I often remember", with the comment "if Prof Bowie says it means "I often remember", then it probably does" [1]. That's good enought for me too, so I'll maintain the motto at this unless someone can demonstrate otherwise. JackyR | Talk 15:47, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

While this is not currently an issue since the motto seems to have disappeared, I thought I should mention here for posterity that the talk page of Talk:St John's College, Cambridge contains a short discussion on the motto, which I contributed to at the time. "Professor Boyd", whoever he is, also agrees on "I often remember" it seems. LeBofSportif (talk) 00:00, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks LeBofSportif for linking that useful discussion. Op. Deo (talk) 11:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

God's House

Could the articles on God's House, Cambridge be merged into an 'early history' section in this one? Discussion here, please, so we keep it all in one place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by A.C. Norman (talk • contribs) 10:13, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Is the motto Latin?

...or French? --Auximines 08:54, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

It's French (I've studied both Latin & French). ṃўɭĩє ^{What did I do}_wrong 22:28, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Coordinate error

{{geodata-check}} The coordinates need the following fixes:

Your coordinates are actually fine, but Google maps has "Christ's College" hundreds

of metres from the correct site. I can't see how to tell Google about this, so I thought I would tell the Wiki community in the hope that someone knows how to correct it.

Rabid-Kestrel (talk) 20:49, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Removing Reference to Tomkins Table in First Line

The Tomkins Table is a weak indicator of a college's intrinsic academic quality. Its methodology is neither professional or scientific. It certainly should not be the first line thing people see when pulling up a college's page. Starting the entire page with a reference to how "reputable" a college is based on its rankings in the Tomkins Table makes the page appear weak and biased. I suggest moving that line down to a section in the page that discusses the reputation or features of the college. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.184.100 (talk) 22:41, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Curiosity

Well, I'm a bit baffled by this, but I thought I'd point it out - I'm not entirely sure if it's a point that should be made here, but regardless.

I'm writing a paper for my English course over John Milton. Attempting to do research on Christ's College, Cambridge, I came here. The first line of the article refers to it as a "constituent college." I have absolutely no idea what that is, nor have I ever heard the term before. The page that the phrase is linked to is a page referring to more "constituent colleges" related to Cambridge University, while a Wiki search for "constituent college" only leads to the page broadly defining a university. A quick Google search yields all of the same results, and nothing more.

So, in terms of explaining what a constituent college is to somebody who does not know, the entire internet seems to be at a loss, and I am still clueless. 64.253.217.55 (talk) 00:58, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Wiktionary:constituent for anyone else browsing this and interested in the answer. Aloneinthewild (talk) 16:49, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Format issues

The whole format of the page, especially the photo with the aerial view of the college, looks quite cluttered and unappealing. The image in question is added next to the 'societies' and 'biological sciences' section but also goes on into the 'proctors of God's House' section. Could someone with more experience in image-manipulation and layout fix this?

I am also wondering, considering the large amount of alumni which go on to do well in many walks of life, having done a variety of courses, to what extent the singling out of 'biological sciences' compared to the other courses is justified here - especially as this does not seems to be emphasized by the College itself.

Many thanks, --131.111.233.196 (talk) 03:42, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks to user aloneinthewild for addressing some of these issues! --131.111.233.196 (talk) 15:08, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, if you can help improve the page further please do, particularly the history section which is looking a bit sparse. I only have a passing interest in the college. Aloneinthewild (talk) 16:49, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

I've taken your words to heart and have changed the page somewhat further - sorting out dead links, merging things that discuss the same aspect and making the list of societies look better. I'll look into history soon, though should probably first create an account here! Many wishes, --131.111.233.196 (talk) 12:25, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

"800th anniversary"

Correct me if I am wrong, but since 1505 till 2005 there are 500 years, not 800. And even if you count since 1473, it is less than 600. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.193.173.17 (talk) 19:49, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

It refers to the 800th anniversary of the University and not the college itself, I think the sentence is fairly clear about this Aloneinthewild (talk) 10:14, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Images & Layout

The page could benefit from an overall change in the structuring of images, placing them all on the right border of the screen, rather than the wall of images currently presented under 'Swimming Pool'. I'm afraid I don't have the wiki-magic to do this myself so would greatly appreciate someone taking this on! --131.111.233.100 (talk) 16:38, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Inayatullah Khan Mashriqi

Its realy sad, in this article on Notable peoples not mentioned Inayatullah Khan Mashriqi who was awarded first class honours in Mathematics Part I, being placed joint 27th out of 31 on the list of wranglers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 39.50.156.169 (talk) 15:14, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

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Christ's Biomedical Reputation

Currently the article suggests that Christ's has an "extremely strong track record" in Biomedical sciences, but this claim appears to be based largely off of the 2014 ranking of colleges for med and vetmed. Seems like that's falling into the recentism trap...

There is the a list of notable Christ's alumni/fellows in the biomedical sciences; in one of those cases, they are also in the section of the article on notable alums (Szeming Sze), of the others, only two appear to be notable enough to have their own wikipedia page (one of which doesn't even mention the association with Christ's: if it's not a notable part of that person's biography, it's certainly not a notable part of the College's history!).

There seems to be no justification in the article that Christ's is particularly notable for its reputation in the biomedical sciences: why, then, is it there? By contrast, Christ's historians (to take an example from my preferred subject area) have included John Robert Seeley, John Plumb, Roy Porter, Quentin Skinner, David Cannadine, Linda Colley, Niall Fergusson, Simon Schama, David Reynolds: an extremely illustrious list, yet deserving of no special mention.

I propose that we get rid of the section on biomedical sciences, unless someone can come up with something justifying its inclusion. After all, Trinity have a genuine and well-deserved reputation for mathematics (including five Fields Medal recipients!), and yet there isn't any specific section on mathematics at trinity on that wikipedia page.

Caeciliusinhorto (talk) 10:59, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Master-elect

I've started an article for Jane Stapleton, the Master-elect, but wasn't sure whether/where it's appropriate to add her until she takes office (September). Espresso Addict (talk) 23:00, 2 March 2016 (UTC)