Talk:Chris Hyndman

Birthplace

According to the Vancouver Sun , [1], Chris was born in Ottawa, Ontario, but grew up in Paradise, Newfoundland. 70.51.170.205 (talk) 01:10, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Note

I'm leaving this note because some editors have insisted on rewording the description of where Hyndman's body was found from "laneway" to "alley".

Although it's true that some of the early sources did describe the place where he was found as an "alley", that word denotes a very narrow passageway which is wide enough only for a pedestrian, and certainly not for a car — and it carries connotations of being the kind of dark space which is often filled with garbage, and would normally have human beings in it only if they were doing something unsavory or illegal (such as a homeless person sleeping behind a dumpster, a drug addict looking for a private "not in front of mom" place to slam, or someone looking to play "hide the salami" with a dangerous bit of rough trade who just might shiv them.) And, in fact, the reader comment threads on some of those same articles revealed that drugs and/or "got stabbed by a hustler" were the assumptions that some readers jumped to about Hyndman's death — in part precisely because they tie directly into homophobic stereotypes of gay men.

However, several news outlets actually did air video of the place where he was found; it was not an "alley" in any of the senses denoted or connoted by that word, but was in fact a wide, short and very well-lit driveway, easily wide enough for two cars to pass each other rather than not being even wide enough for one, leading to a back parking lot behind two condo buildings. It was not a space where any of the mental images conjured by the word "alley" were applicable at all — it was a space where a person could quite naturally be found for purely innocent reasons, not one where their presence would automatically imply that anything sleazy was happening.

So the word "alley" is not an appropriate description, in a neutral encyclopedia article, of where this happened — the word needs to be either "laneway" or "driveway", not "alley". Bearcat (talk) 16:05, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Although Global is using the term "alleyway", both The Star and CBC are using "laneway", which suggests some confusion on the part of the reliable sources. That said, I would also suggest using "laneway" because I consider the Star, a Toronto paper, to be more reliable when it comes to Toronto street designations than national news organisations. Ca2james (talk) 19:51, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

I think people assumed that it was an alley because some media outlets described it as such. Humans will attach all kinds of significance to that, but I'm hard pressed to find that they would "automatically" do so specifically because Hyndman was gay, and through their own homophobia, more than they would through a need to gossip about a deceased celebrity whose cause and manner of death are unknown. Nevertheless if Toronto newspapers are calling the site a laneway, then I support that description in the article. RIP Chris. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.121.26.238 (talk) 22:05, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Cause of death

@Bearcat: Is this suitable for inclusion? Chris Hyndman's mother believes he died sleepwalking

As of the time of writing, the police haven't confirmed his cause of death, so I'd think that any speculation would be WP:CRYSTAL. However, his mother's statement is being reported on from a reliable source. Not sure what takes precedence. --Drm310 (talk) 14:51, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

I don't think CRYSTAL would apply, as that's not us making unsourced speculation of our own, but a reliably sourced comment from somebody who has a direct connection to the story and would be in a position to know something — as long as we phrase it carefully (i.e. indicating that it's his mother's belief rather than confirmed fact), I don't see any reason why we shouldn't include it. That said, the Star article includes (in the caption of the photograph) the very same street address that I've previously revdelled from this article to protect Steven's personal privacy rights under our WP:BLPPRIVACY rules, so I was a bit reluctant to explicitly cite it as a source for the same reason — however, I've found that Metro is also running basically the same story without that privacy concern. So I was actually already just about to add it to the article with that source instead when I got your ping. Great minds think (almost) alike! Bearcat (talk) 15:06, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Is the current sentence about the statements by Hyndman's mother a bit embellished, given what is stated in the newspaper articles? Rather than saying he "had a lifelong pattern of sleepwalking", simply say he "was a sleepwalker" as stated in the articles. And, rather than saying she "suggested that he most likely fell", simply say "she believes he fell". Essenoh (talk) 20:02, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

@Essenoh:, you should already have autoconfirmed status — the article has only been locked to IP edits, not to everybody below the level of an administrator. So if you feel strongly that the wording of the article should be changed, you can just go ahead and make that change yourself rather than requiring anybody's permission. Bearcat (talk) 00:52, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

@Bearcat: Thanks, I was unsure of the protocol for a recent news item. I'm not sure his mother's statement (speculation?) is worthy of inclusion in the article in the long term, but it is the only statement that has been reported so far.

Fair enough. If we get confirmation from the police or the autopsy of a different cause of death, then we'd absolutely replace the sleepwalking statement with the new confirmed facts at that time — but for the moment, her statement is all we've got. And given the other details we have of the circumstances, and the fact that the police have said that there's no evidence of criminal "foul play" here, sadly she's probably right about what happened. Bearcat (talk) 02:28, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

@Bearcat: If no signs of trauma were found, what made people think he fell off a balcony? He would have some injury for sure, or he wouldn't be dead.

- MakeMeDo (talk)

22:15, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Nobody, least of all me, said anything about "no signs of trauma" — what I said is that there was no sign reported by the police of foul play. "Foul play" does not mean "trauma"; it means "evidence of something that somebody could be charged with a crime for". If somebody falls off a balcony, obviously there's going to be "trauma" and nobody ever said otherwise — but there still isn't "foul play" unless there's evidence that somebody else pushed him off the balcony (which there wasn't). Bearcat (talk) 23:26, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

"He first met Sabados at a bar"

Most sources that say they met at a bar in Toronto also say they were arguing about feminism. The argument fact has been left out here, understandably, because it is not really a crucial fact. But it is not clear why the fact that they met at a bar matters either. Some sources say "The two met through mutual friends in 1988"[2][3]. To just say they met "at a bar" says nothing about how they came to be there and suggests a chance encounter while cruising. I recommend the section be revised to read "He first met Sabados through mutual friends at a Toronto bar in 1988." 99.192.71.140 (talk) 17:21, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable to me. I've made this change. --Drm310 (talk) 21:49, 6 August 2015 (UTC)