Talk:Chinese alligator

Chinese alligator has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: March 18, 2019. (Reviewed version).

A fact from Chinese alligator appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 10 April 2019 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the critically endangered Chinese alligator (pictured) may have helped inspire the mythology of the Chinese dragon?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2019/April. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Chinese alligator.

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Chinese alligators in captivity

Where are Chinese Alligators held in captivity?

Size

It would be really good to have some information on the average sizes of these animals, especially considering it does say that they smaller than the American Alligator. — The Storm Surfer 04:54, 7 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Class

I have rated this page as B-class, but it is a very weak B. I feel that a lot could be done with this page. There is only a single sentence describing the conservation efforts being made to save the animal. What are the Chinese cultural views on the animal? Is it involved in any myths? Do the Chinese value it for it's meat or skin? --Ghostexorcist 15:31, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jeff Corwin

I have just read a section on this animal in Jeff Corwin's book "100 heartbeats" and I think this article takes sections of his book unreferenced. Or maybe Jeff took info from here, but that's very unlikely? What do you guys think? Maybe someone should add his book as a reference? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.255.1.165 (talk) 15:50, 4 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Martial Arts" section

The section named "Martial Arts" seems to be pretty useless.ARAL2001 (talk) 18:46, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

English language

There are serious problems with the English language in this article. It needs to be edited for this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.4.62.61 (talk) 09:17, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Chinese alligator/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Jens Lallensack (talk · contribs) 20:58, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Starting soon! --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:58, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jens Lallensack: Great, thank you for taking this on! Take your time. I'd be happy to see what comments you have about the article.--SkyGazer 512 ^{My talk page} 22:28, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

which are smaller than any other crocodilian. – "than in any other crocodilian"? or "than those of"?

Done.

wrote about the Chinese alligator in a book. The book said that it – not sure if the book is relevant. It may be more concise to simply write "wrote that the Chinese alligator …"

Done.

Chinese alligators were later thought to give priests merit – later than what? Does this relate to a specific religion?

The source says There are several later records of alligators on exhibit, and it is said that Buddhist priests could acquire merit by purchasing the captive reptiles and freeing them, so I've added the info about that the priests were Buddhists in particular. The source doesn't provide an exact time period, unfortunately; that would be something useful to include. It does use the word "later" directly after it talks about an event in 1869, but it's too vague to provide any useful time reference for the readers.

that the Chinese alligator was developed as an offshoot of other now-extinct animals in the genus Alligator. – only a suggestion, but maybe "has evolved from other now-extinct members of the genus Alligator" is easier.

Done. I like that wording better, thank you.

but these are thought to no longer be accurate. – This means they were accurate before? Or is it supposed to mean "but these are no longer thought to be accurate"?

Ironically, I think I fixed that same problem when I was doing a quick check-over of the article last night, as I noticed the same thing. See Special:Diff/888134565.

it does not intentionally hurt humans outside of potential extreme circumstances – "potential extreme circumstances", a bit vague, what does it mean?

The source says except possibly in the most extreme of circumstances, so unfortunately there's not much detail available. I could try to make it a bit more similar to what the source says, or I could just remove it completely, I doubt it adds that much to the article.

Ok, I'm not sure, your decision. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:28, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

being the highest in mid-June. – "being highest in mid-June"?

Done.

although according to the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN), the alligator has the capability of laying 10–40 eggs. – I would either say "is capable of laying up to 40 eggs" or "clutch size ranges between 10 and 40 eggs" or something similar.

Done, went with the second wording. I definitely think that's more concise than what I had previously, thank you.

, including the day and night" – "during both day and night"?

I'm not too sure about this one. The source says the provided temperature is the average of the day and night, so it's not necessarily true that it is the average temperature range in both the day and night; maybe the temperature is much higher than that in the day and much lower at night.

Ok, lets leave it as is. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:28, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

a feature present in all crocodilians – but also other reptiles?

Is it present in all reptiles? Also, I'm not sure I'm correct about it being in all crocodilians even; this source says Half of the 22 extant crocodilians show evidence of temperature-dependent sex determination (TSD), although it is from the 1990s so not entirely recent.

What about changing to "a feature present in many other reptiles" or something similar? I would further suggest to link to Temperature-dependent sex determination so that the reader can inform himself. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:28, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

After the eggs are laid, the females sometimes leave the nest, but other times stay to protect the eggs – Maybe clarify that this does not mean that the females are sometimes abandoning the nest? This is what I thought when first reading this.

Give me a minute; I'm going to have to access Galileo so that I can see exactly how the source words it.

Looking at the journal on Galileo now, it says some female Chinese alligators (Alligator sinensis) defend their nests after laying eggs while others leave their nests soon after laying eggs, so I'm not really sure the best way to change the wording without changing the meaning.--SkyGazer 512 ^{My talk page} 16:07, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hm, that source is quite vague, not possible to be more precise here I think. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:28, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A study published in the journal Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology Part A: Molecular & Integrative Physiolog – I wouldn't name the journal, which is not very relevant here. Instead, I would say "a 2002 study".

Done.

sound pressure level – would it be possible to explain and/or link this?

Linked.

According to The Journal of Experimental Biology, – no, not according to the journal, but according to the paper within the journal, or the authors of that paper. The journal is only the publisher, the authors of the respective paper are responsible for the content. Also see comment above about naming the journals.

I've simply removed "According to The Journal of Experimental Biology", let me know if you have any issue with that.

occupying an area of about 5 square kilometres – in total, or in each region?

I assume it's in total, as the IUCN says "ESTIMATED AREA OF OCCUPANCY (AOO) (KM²): 5".

I agree, I would specify that. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:28, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is the only species in the family Alligatoridae that lives on a continent other than North or South America – This can be misleading, as there is only one other species, which is the American Alligator. Suggest to remove this sentence.

I would be okay with removing this if you think it's necessary, but I believe you're incorrect about the American alligator being the only other species in Alligatoridae; there are six living species of caimans in it.

My bad, never mind. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:28, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

due to tectonic changes – what do you mean with this? What kind of tectonic changes?

The journal says in its abstract: due to tectonic and climatic changes in the Plio-Pleistocene and yet finally were wiped out from Japan due to the semi-isolated condition of the Japanese island arc and the deteriorated climate during the Plio-Pleistocene; I could incorporate that or if that's not enough information I could always add a request at WP:RX for the full article.

I can send you the paper if you would wikimail me your email address. But I think that stating something like "due to Japans increased isolation from the continent and harsh climate conditions" would already be enough to make this sentence more helpful for the reader, I don't think we need the word "tectonic" at all. Also, I would not use the word "country" here, which is an political entity that didn't yet exist at the time. I also would replace "poor climate" with "harsh climate", which might be a little more precise? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:28, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In November 2017, four Chinese alligators were transported from their natural habitat in China to Shizuoka, Japan, which was the first time since 2006 any individuals of the species were taken to another country – is it really of relevance to state that it was the first time since a year?

Removed the "first time since 2006" info.

Some writers have associated the Chinese alligator with the Chinese dragon. The alligator is thought to have been the inspiration for it. – I would combine these sentence for conciseness and brevity. Maybe "Some writers suggested that the Chinese alligator was the inspiration for the Chinese dragon." – Says the same, but much shorter.

Done.

--Jens Lallensack (talk) 14:34, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Jens Lallensack; thank you for the prompt and thorough review! I have fixed the majority of issues you pointed out, but I've left some questions for you about places where I'm not sure if incorporating a change would be possible or I think it would not improve the article. Cheers, --SkyGazer 512 ^{My talk page} 16:12, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome, and thank you for this important article. Hope to see more crocodiles soon! See my answers to some of the points above. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:28, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jens Lallensack: Thanks for the responses, I believe I've resolved everything except for the link to temperature-dependent sex determination. I completely agree that a link should be added there; I was actually planning on adding it before nominating this. However, I couldn't find a good place to put it and just decided to leave it unless it was brought up at the review, and indeed it was. :-) Do you have any specific suggestions? The best I can think of would be to rewrite the sentence as something like Like many other reptiles, it exhibits temperature-dependent sex determination, meaning that the temperature of incubation controls whether a young alligator will be male or female. Would that work? Maybe with a few tweaks?--SkyGazer 512 ^{My talk page} 20:46, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You could alternatively gloss it (i.e., "This temperature controls whether a young alligator will be male or female (temperature-dependent sex determination"), but I personally would prefer your suggestion, which works perfectly. I'm promoting now, congrats! --Jens Lallensack (talk) 21:51, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Jens Lallensack. I've tweaked the wording per your suggestion. It was great working with you on this review.

--SkyGazer 512 ^{My talk page} 22:50, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Snails are mollusks

"A study of the alligator in 1985 showed that snails were the most common animal in its diet at 63%, with 65% of that being river snails and 35% spiral-shelled snails. According to the survey, its diet also contained 16% rabbits, 8.3% mollusks ..." Snails are mollusks. Should that read "... other mollusks ... ? I'm assuming it's mussels, since there are no freshwater cephalopods, chitons, oysters, or true clams that I am aware of, and I've never heard of an alligator eating a slug, but I could be wrong. IAmNitpicking (talk) 12:25, 10 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You have a point, but strangely this is the exact statement as given in the book (the passage can be seen on Google books - [1]). I assume the authors mean "other freshwater molluscs", but phrased it in an unclear way. Not really in our bailiwick to interpret though, I'm afraid :/ --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 13:18, 10 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Babygator2.jpg

A baby Chinese alligator on a mass of vegetation in a body of water — Young alligators, such as this one, are covered with light spots.

@Esagurton:, is there a reason why you keep removing this image? See also Help:Edit summary. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 15:08, 18 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]