Talk:Children of Earth and Sky

A fact from Children of Earth and Sky appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 18 November 2021 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Guy Gavriel Kay, author of Children of Earth and Sky, has been described as "contemporary fiction's finest fantasist"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2021/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Children of Earth and Sky.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 21:15, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Article history

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... ~~that when conducting research for the book Children of Earth and Sky, writer Guy Gavriel Kay learned about the origins of Venetian bookbinding?~~ Source: "I loved learning about the origins of books being bound in Venice, though it is only a small bit in the novel." The 'Quarter Turn' of History: A Conversation with Guy Gavriel Kay

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Nydia Blas; see my DYK tracker

Moved to mainspace by Mindmatrix (talk). Self-nominated at 23:52, 1 November 2021 (UTC).[reply]

Comment: the hook was changed from "...about bookbinding in Venice" to "...about the origins of bookbinding in Venice". Although technically correct, it has an ambiguous interpretation (that bookbinding originated in Venice) in addition to the correct interpretation (the origins of the Venetian craft of bookbinding); artistic bookbinding was already practiced in parts of Europe before its ascendance in Venice (see, for example, History of Books and Printing @ Archives & Special Collections: Bookbinding at University of Pittsburgh Library System). Mind matrix 14:00, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, tweaked again per your comment, how does it look now? Gatoclass (talk) 15:03, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good. Mind matrix 15:07, 2 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Article is new and long enough, neutrally written and plagiarism free. The hook is cited and of acceptable interest. The given QPQ is very old, dating back to 2019, but I will WP:AGF that it is legit. My one quibble is that a sentence in the plot section is uncited. Also if you wouldn't mind Mindmatrix, I would like you to check the hook one last time as I gave it another slight tweak and I want to be sure it is acceptable to you in its current form. Gatoclass (talk) 10:58, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Update: I just belatedly realized the article lacks a critical reception section. Since such sections are standard for works of fiction, the article arguably fails rule D7 of the supplementary rules, so I'd like to see one added. Gatoclass (talk) 12:05, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Gatoclass: I've added a reception section, including a number of quotations. Regarding the QPQ (I appreciate the AGF), Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Did you know nominations/Nydia Blas indicates I've only linked to that review once, and as indicated above, I maintain a tracker for all my DYK work that matches my reviews to my nominations. (I participate in DYK in spurts, and bank QPQs when I get the chance.) Regarding the hook, I was going to make the same change, so it's certainly acceptable. Regarding the unsourced sentence in the plot, I've added a citation to the Review by Hobbs in The Globe and Mail, where he states "...Duke of Seressa (our Venice) is keen to find and fill any power vacuums..."; it's the closest I could find, so if you'd like for me to tweak the phrasing in the article, I'll do so. Mind matrix 14:56, 4 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's a very nice addition Mindmatrix, thank you. With regard to the "power vacuums" quote, it doesn't quite reflect the statement in the article. Have you actually read the book so you know firsthand that the duke seeks to ouster rivals? If so, I will accept the text as is, but if not, I think you should modify the line in question to conform with the source.

My only other concern now, given that this was a very well received book, is that the proposed hook doesn't do justice to it. But now that the article has a well developed reception section, I'm thinking perhaps we could use something from that instead. How about something like:

ALT1: ... that Guy Gavriel Kay, author of Children of Earth and Sky, has been described as "contemporary fiction's finest fantasist"? Gatoclass (talk) 15:01, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Gatoclass: I've trimmed "... by ousting weaker nearby rivals" from the offending sentence; is what remains suitable? As far as the hook goes, I'm fine with ALT1. Mind matrix 15:14, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Mindmatrix, I gave the sentence a slight tweak for clarity.

This review is now complete, but since I can't approve a hook of my own, I will have to find somebody to supply the final tick - hopefully it won't take too long. Thanks once again for your patience. Gatoclass (talk) 15:31, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Redirecting for another reviewer to verify ALT1. Mind matrix 15:46, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

hook is cited inline and interesting, we're good to go! theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 16:00, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]