Talk:Cheryl (singer)/Archive 4

This is an archive of past discussions about Cheryl (singer). Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

Delete "and dancer" from lead sentence

Sorry to be picky, but this is a WP:BLP and sources are required for statements about living people. Where please is the evidence that the singer has performed as a dancer? The subject of the bio took ballet aged 9 and appeared on TV dancing aged 10. There is no evidence in the article of having ever being employed as a dancer per se, as opposed to dancing in pop videos, which all singers do. If WP:RS sources can be provided then by all means restore "dancer", but not without sources. In ictu oculi (talk) 21:54, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Today this edit added Cheryl Fernandez-Versini reveals what saved her from a life of crime which says "attending dance classes regularly as a little girl saved her from a life on the streets." This proves what we already know from the article, that Cheryl Cole appeared at the age of 10 years old dancing on Gimme 5 a children's television programme. That does not make Cheryl Cole a dancer. It is still WP:OR and @5 albert square: I am requesting that you remove that from the lead of the article as good faith edit but misleading and untrue information. If you want to move it down to the childhood section then fine, no problem. Cheers. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:27, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

I’ve reverted. Linguist^un Eins ^uno 12:38, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

NEEDS AN UPDATED PICTURE!

Can someone change the picture for Cheryl? A nice square picture from 2017/2018? There are plenty to choose from. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julianmbk2 (talk • contribs) 06:16, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Change page name

Can someone change the page name to "Cheryl"? The existing page named. "Cheryl" is for the name, but that should be titled "Cheryl (name)". This page should go to "Cheryl" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julianmbk2 (talk • contribs) 06:17, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

See my comment over at Cheryl - " The name page is always going to be the primary topic over Cheryl Tweedy/Cole/Singer/Entertainer/Rumplestiltskin". This will never happen. Chaheel Riens (talk) 06:28, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

This article is too big!

It is far too large. It needs cutting down to an appropriate size. Additionally guidelines should be published on WP for the size of articles. 86.187.165.52 (talk) 15:43, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

No, it's not. --177.95.132.46 (talk) 14:40, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Who Do You Think You Are

Cheryl appeared on the show Who Do You Think You Are?. I would imagine information from the show could be used to expand on her family history. Aoba47 (talk) 01:23, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

That information is already included in the personal life section. Linguist111^{my talk page} 17:11, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

@Linguist111: Thank you for the response. Just thought I should bring it up, and I did not see that it was already included in the article. Your link is also not working for me btw as it leads to the Cheryl name article, but I know what you meant. Aoba47 (talk) 05:47, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

@Aoba47: You’re welkome. I fixed the link. Linguist111^{my talk page} 10:19, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Who Do You Think You Are

Cheryl appeared on the show Who Do You Think You Are?. I would imagine information from the show could be used to expand on her family history. Aoba47 (talk) 01:23, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

That information is already included in the personal life section. Linguist111^{my talk page} 17:11, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

@Linguist111: Thank you for the response. Just thought I should bring it up, and I did not see that it was already included in the article. Your link is also not working for me btw as it leads to the Cheryl name article, but I know what you meant. Aoba47 (talk) 05:47, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

@Aoba47: You’re welkome. I fixed the link. Linguist111^{my talk page} 10:19, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Dancer in lead?

What would you guys say about including "dancer" in the opening lead and infobox? Given her history in the industry, and her role on The Greatest Dancer, I'd like to believe its a notable enough of a profession to be included. livelikemusic talk! 23:35, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

I understand your point, but I would say no. I would think that an individual should only have "dancer" in their opening lead or infobox if they were either trained in some type of dance or if that is their primary occupation. I think that the media considers Cheryl's dancing as part of her occupation as a singer/entertainer, and I am uncertain if anyone would refer to her as just a professional dancer. That is just my opinion though. Aoba47 (talk) 22:24, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
If it is integral to her notability, and therefore due, then yes. It would be necessary for the article to cite reliable sources that give in-depth coverage to her dancing history. Linguist111^{my talk page} 23:30, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

I agree that if there are reliable sources that provide coverage on her dancing history, then it would be appropriate. Aoba47 (talk) 00:27, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 12 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not done. Consensus is to keep the current name. –Davey2010^Talk 20:23, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Cheryl (singer) → Cheryl
Cheryl → Cheryl (given name)

– Requesting to move Cheryl (singer) to Cheryl and Cheryl to Cheryl (given name). When you search Cheryl in Google, the singer is the only name who comes up and there are millions of results for her. I think those searching Cheryl on Wikipedia are more likely to be looking for the singer than the name itself. In a similar way Madonna was moved from Madonna (entertainer) was moved to Madonna. Samia8th (talk) 02:59, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Cheryl Hines gets 43,479 views, Cheryl Ladd gets 26,566 and Cheryl Burke gets 20,614 compared with 67,178[[1]] for the singer and there are lots more however the singer is probably the only one commonly known as "Cheryl" alone. Crouch, Swale (talk) 08:15, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Oppose. I see the pedia not being better with this change and foresee a lot of incorrect incoming links to the target. Also, as Crouch Swale pointed above, while the singer gets the most views, it doesn't get more than all others combined, not even more than the 3 they've linked to. Gonnym (talk) 09:55, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Oppose - Gonnym was far too nice. This is a ridiculous suggestion by an edit-warring, days-old account. The long-term significance of the given name trumps fleeting popularity of a singer. -- Netoholic @ 10:09, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Snowclose. The primary topic is clearly the given name, not the singer. O.N.R. ^(talk) 16:00, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Oppose per all the above. Lugnuts ^{Fire Walk with Me} 17:08, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Oppose per above. Not more notable than other people named Cheryl. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 19:52, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Oppose. Proposed target is not so far out ahead that it should take the title. Binksternet (talk) 21:57, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
Oppose per above. LSGH (talk) (contributions) 05:42, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
Oppose per above arguments - this Cheryl is not the most notable in the Cheryl pantheon. Chaheel Riens (talk) 07:39, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
Oppose see above and while consensus can change, there have been enough moves and suggested moves of this article as is. Acalamari 07:57, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
Dabify. I think the case for the move is much stronger than the comments above suggest. The singer (nowadays) goes by the mononym 'Cheryl'. She releases music under that name, and is commonly referred to in RS by that name alone. This is not true of Cheryl Hines, Cheryl Ladd, etc. I would say she certainly passes the "much more likely than any other single topic [...] to be the topic when a reader searches for that term" criterion of WP:PTOPIC. However, it could be argued that the name has greater long-term significance. I'd like to see a disambiguation page created at the basename, with links to the name article, the singer, and Cheryl (artist collective) (and other Cheryls who are known mononymously, if any others exist). Right now we have Cheryl (disambiguation) as a redirect to the name article, which is not appropriate. A name article is not a disambiguation page. Colin M (talk) 19:40, 13 July 2021 (UTC)
Oppose. Doesn't trump the name. Added to which, inaccurate or not, most people still call her Cheryl Cole! -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:26, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
Oppose and WP:SNOW close please. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:06, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested addition of information to Public image (to be added at the very end of current section

As a consequence of her choice to remain faithful to her Newcastle-upon-Tyne working-class origins despite wide media exposure, Cheryl has come to embody a characterological figure of her native language variety, Geordie^[1]. This has in turn attributed coolness to "the practice of performing Geordieness to establish personality."^[2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.40.229.48 (talk) 21:30, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

References

^ Di Martino, Emilia (2019). Celebrity Accents and Public Identity Construction. Geordie Stylizations. London and New York: Routledge. ISBN 978-0367226800.
^ Di Martino, Emilia (2019). Celebrity Accents and Public Identity Construction. Geordie Stylizations, p. 104. London and New York: Routledge. ISBN 978-0367226800.

You solved it!

Livelikemusic, not sure what you meant by the link to the non-existent wp:notatabloid on your last revert. Perhaps frustration over the fact that the source referenced is not considered one of the Wikipedia:Deprecated sources, but you think it should be? Take that up at the deprecated sources page. Also not sure why so fastidious believing that a report calling Jean-Bernard Fernandez-Versini her "ex-husband" does not mean divorced. Perhaps frustration that they did not refer to him with the entire phrase "the person who was once her husband but has since been divorced thus is now her ex-husband"? Take that up with the magazine editor who did not chastise their reporter and demand 17 words when one says the same thing.

All, of course, is now moot, because you found the golden ticket! After years wasted protecting the note "Please do not change without a citation to a reliable source published in February 2017 or later, or prior consensus on the talk page. The latter is preferred as this issue has been discussed extensively and reports from sources remain unclear", and warnings of WP:OR, you were the one who aced the search effort and found a terrific source, from 4 years ago, using all the right words to do with this issue.

All kidding aside, that's a nice catch. I searched on three separate occasions and had not found that particular reference. Too bad you had not found it 4 years earlier. Now if you could just find something to keep others from messing with the "mononymously as Cheryl" edits. Thanks for the fix. Jmg38 (talk) 06:09, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

[1] Di Martino, Emilia (2019). Celebrity Accents and Public Identity Construction. Geordie Stylizations. London and New York: Routledge. ISBN 978-0367226800.

[2] Di Martino, Emilia (2019). Celebrity Accents and Public Identity Construction. Geordie Stylizations, p. 104. London and New York: Routledge. ISBN 978-0367226800.

[1]

[2]