Talk:Charles H. Ellis III
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Notability
[edit]I think that being Presiding Bishop of the Pentecostal Assemblies of the World should suffice for notability. The Pentecostal Assemblies of the World represent 1.5 million members. Therefore I have removed the notability questioned tag. Although I remain concerned about the lack of citations to independent sources. --Bejnar (talk) 19:20, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
Controversy, Groping Incident
[edit]Given the notability of this incident, I move that it be added:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4js91h9B60A
https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-45381687 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.72.60.81 (talk) 13:28, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
I agree that this is notable, but would it be wrong to describe it as groping in the article text? Right now it reads very WP:Euphemism. Tethros (talk) 14:10, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
- It would be interesting to hear from women in his congregation to know if this sort of thing happens a lot. Lehasa (talk) 14:25, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
- Wikipedia does not have to mention every little incident. Remember this page is here forever. Excerpts like this can hunt people forever and hurt people's good name. While this little incident lasts only a few days in the social media and press.--Wester (talk) 19:27, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
- Excerpts like this SHOULD hurt people's good name. Excessive groping of someone on public television, then not even apologizing directly. Watching the video, you can see it was intentional, and not appropriate of a person who is supposed to be a moral leader. This is the sort of event that, in a respectable organization, would result in the person being fired. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:85:C300:2F4:9C0F:688D:6029:7429 (talk) 19:49, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
- Watching the video, it is clear that his hand was not on her breast, and only lightly held below her arm. Ariana Grande has said nothing to indicate that she agrees with the outrage. It would be preferable to change the text to say that media suggested he had groped her, not that he was seen groping her, since the suggestion that he did so remains unproven and no proceedings to establish it as a fact have ever taken place. Wikipedia should not be used to wage the personal, subjective moral crusade of one part of society. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lodatz (talk • contribs) 10:16, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
- Who cares about his good name? This isn't a little incident, it deserves to be mentioned. Should we keep out all controversies just so we don't hurt a sexual predator's feeling? ~~
- We should take care to actually adhere to journalistic integrity. Ariana Grande has said nothing to confirm that shares the outrage with what happened, and Bishop Ellis has apologized for any unintentional discomfort. Unless someone can demonstrate that Bishop Ellis' intentions were malicious or lustful, then the accusation that he is a sexual predator is unfounded, unestablished and merely the subjective opinion of one section of society. If the controversy must be mentioned at all, despite how trivial the incident was, then it should be in language which does not state the accusation as though it were true, and instead should remain neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lodatz (talk • contribs) 10:23, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
- Excerpts like this SHOULD hurt people's good name. Excessive groping of someone on public television, then not even apologizing directly. Watching the video, you can see it was intentional, and not appropriate of a person who is supposed to be a moral leader. This is the sort of event that, in a respectable organization, would result in the person being fired. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:85:C300:2F4:9C0F:688D:6029:7429 (talk) 19:49, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
- Wikipedia does not have to mention every little incident. Remember this page is here forever. Excerpts like this can hunt people forever and hurt people's good name. While this little incident lasts only a few days in the social media and press.--Wester (talk) 19:27, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
Cleanup of Ministry Section
[edit]Cleaned up the ministry section to read less like a church brochure, while keeping the pertinent information. Removed entirely the section on corporate sponsorship, as I fail to see how this is related to ministry.Tethros (talk) 15:22, 1 September 2018 (UTC)