Talk:Charles Byrne (giant)

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Contradiction

The article says that Byrne's height is a matter of conjecture, with estimates from 8' 2" to 8' 4", and yet his skeleton is preserved, and is 7' 7". --Stemonitis 07:47, 19 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

County Londonderry

See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Ireland-related_articles#Derry/Londonderry - "Use Derry for the city and County Londonderry for the county in articles." Alekksandr (talk) 09:45, 29 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Just in relation to a recent edit by Canterbury Tail; that southern part of County Derry is usually popularly known as South Derry. Canterbury Tail evidently isn't from the nine-county Province of Ulster or he would know that. We all know that the area known popularly as South Derry is a 'brave drive' (a bit of a distance) from Derry, a city that I live about eight miles from. Laggan Boy (talk) 10:39, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Then it should be referenceable, though it's worth bearing in mind that it could be confusing to readers to have an area in County Londonderry referred to as South Derry. However ultimately at the end of the day this article is about a person, not details on the village he grew up in, so adding layers of qualification and reference to the settlement location, naming and colloquialisms of the village and the area name is irrelevant to this article and undue. It may be relevant for an article on Littlebridge, but not for an article on a person from Littlebridge. Canterbury Tail talk 11:43, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's your view. Catty as usual. Laggan Boy (talk) 14:44, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That comment is inappropriate, Laggan Boy. On the issue of the content, I agree that the following text is irrelevant in the article and detracts from the point of the article:

Littlebridge, not far from the north-western shores of Lough Neagh, is in the townland of Drummullan and is just over 4 miles (6.4 km) east of Cookstown. The hamlet of Littlebridge is right beside County Londonderry's boundary with County Tyrone.

Schazjmd (talk) 14:54, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that information about Littlebridge is irrelevant, actually. It is of great interest to people, especially to historians, exactly where someone is from; where exactly they were born. As Littlebridge currently has no Wikipedia article of its own, it is important to state exactly where that hamlet is located. Place, where people come, is very important to Irish people.

As for 'inappropriate' comments, Canterbury Tail and me have a history of disagreeing about almost every on Wikipedia. No matter what I do, he considers it wrong. He usually posts some 'catty' comment about my edits. His ridiculous comment that South Derry is 'nowhere near Derry' is another example of his behaviour on Wikipedia. I have no doubt that he knows rightly that the term 'South Derry' doesn't mean the city; I have no doubt he knows rightly that 'South Derry' is what us Ulster folk call that southern, largely rural area of County Derry where the late Seamus Heaney was from. Yet he made the ridiculous comment that he made when, yet again, reverting one of my edits, where I had inserted the term 'South Derry' into the article about Charles Byrne. Canterbury Tail seems to have a real issue with the term 'Derry'. So I stand over my allegedly 'inappropriate' comment. Laggan Boy (talk) 18:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(Ignoring personal digression) As a reader, when I get to the multiple sentences trying to establish precisely where Littlebridge is located, I assume that information is important to the biography. But then I read the rest of the article and discover that it makes no difference to my understanding of the subject. So the article wasted my time as I tried to figure out the hamlet's location in relation to Lough Neagh, Drummullan, Cookstown, and County Tyrone. Maybe you can come up with a map to show where Littlebridge is. Schazjmd (talk) 18:37, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I have no objections to the word Derry, I do however have objections with referring to the county as County Derry as this is against WP:DERRY, and referring to part of County Londonderry as South Derry or North Derry is going against WP:DERRY. If you wish to refer to the county, or part of the county, as Derry then you will need to obtain consensus at WP:IMOS to alter the current consensus for the county name. Otherwise as per the consensus, the county is to be referred to as Londonderry. You are aware of the IMOS, and that it's followed. Since this consensus exist, I therefore assume along the lines of that, that a reference to South Derry is indeed the city as that is the entity named Derry on Wikipedia. That's all. Canterbury Tail talk 21:03, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me, Canterbury Tail, but I have been adhering to Wikipedia's rules as regards the naming of County Derry. I absolutely loathe the word 'Londonderry'. However, I have been following Wikipedia's compromise as regards the term 'County Londonderry', as you'll see from my editing. I'm not the one who has been constantly changing 'County Londonderry' to 'County Derry' in this article. Some anonymous user has been doing that, not me.

And, once again, for us Irish and for those of us who are training historians, where someone is from exactly is of huge interest and importance. Laggan Boy (talk) 21:21, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

For reference, I am not accusing you of altering County Londonderry to County Derry, you have not been doing such edits and in the edits I have seen of yours (I do not follow you around, we just happen to end up on many of the same articles) you do not make this alteration. My only comment on this was that using South Derry to refer to part of the county is still against WP:DERRY if it is being used as a reference to part of the county and not the south of the city. As for more info on where the article subject is from, if that location is notable enough then maybe it should have a Wikipedia article. However I believe it is undue to add too much detail on the village to an article on the person, simply mentioning where he is from is sufficient, as it's an article on a person not the village. Canterbury Tail talk 21:33, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

How about moving the location details to a footnote? Schazjmd (talk) 21:46, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've made it an efn in the article to show how it reads with that approach. Schazjmd (talk) 21:50, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I would agree with Schazjmd's compromise. I think that might be a solution to this slight disagreement.

As regards the term 'South Derry', that is the term us Ulster folk use for that southern swathe of County Derry. That is the reality. I always thought that Wikipedia was about truth, accuracy and enlightenment. So here is a truth: us Ulster 'wans' refer to that area as South Derry. Always have. Probably always will. I should know: I be in South Derry once or twice a week!! Laggan Boy (talk) 22:28, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

As for the suggestion that Littlebridge in South Derry should have a Wikipedia article of its own: I agree. I might even create such an article myself. I'll have to research the topic 'a wee bit' first of all. I might start by actually driving to Littlebridge some time this week. The hamlet is about an hour's drive south-east from my home village here in East Donegal. Laggan Boy (talk) 22:38, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Laggan Boy, you could add information about Littlebridge to Drummullan (which currently takes "credit" for Byrne, without any explanation for how Littlebridge relates to Drummullan). Schazjmd (talk) 22:43, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I 'did'nae' (didn't) know that, actually. I did'nae even know that there was a Wikipedia article about the townland of Drummullan. Perhaps locally, in that very rural Irish tradition, the hamlet of Littlebridge, which lies within the townland of Drummullan, is also known as Drummullan. I must investigate!! And thanks again, Schazjmd, for your rather excellent and sensible compromise. Laggan Boy (talk) 22:51, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, there is a whole documentary about Byrne's life that can still be viewed on YouTube. It is called Charles Byrne: An Fathach Éireannach / The Irish Giant, and it was directed by Ronan McCloskey and narrated by Brian Mullen. The documentary was made for both BBC Northern Ireland and TG4 and it was originally released in January 2011. I'm not sure if a direct reference link to that documentary can be added to this article. The documentary certainly can be viewed in full on YouTube at the moment anyhow. It is in Irish, with English subtitles. Some major historians of Irish history are interviewed in the documentary, including Prof. Cormac Ó Grada and Prof. Brendan Mac Suibhne. Laggan Boy (talk) 23:10, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'd just like to say I completely understand why you don't like the word Londonderry, I entirely get it. I'm not a fan of it myself. However Wikipedia's consensus has chosen to go with the name the county was named when it was created and how it was officially always used when it existed as a government authority and how it's still named as a postal area and geographical location. Due to the fact no official authority has had any desire to change it's name. As a result the name County Derry is purely colloquial. I get it, honestly I do, but the unfortunate facts push it otherwise and people (understandably) not liking the name doesn't alter that. Maybe when Northern Ireland eventually leaves the United Kingdom and joins with (Republic of) Ireland that may change, but for now it's what we're left with. Canterbury Tail talk 23:42, 15 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Skeleton no longer on display

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/irish-giants-skeleton-granted-privacy-cbxmgrn5f