Talk:Chaplet of Saint Michael

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Forms of prayer

I removed the forms of prayer from this article. The prayers are original source texts, and as such don't really belong in the encyclopedia article. If they're public domain (English translation dating to before 1923 for the US, or otherwise released for free distribtion) they might find a home at Wikisource, along with the entire text of the prayer books they came from. - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 16:47, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge

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Unmerge Antónia d'Astónaco

The section on Antónia d'Astónaco was merged into this article but it should not have been. Articles about a person have the potential to be greatly expanded beyond the scope of a simple article about a chaplet. If anything, the merger should have been the other way, i.e. the article about this chaplet could be part of the article on Antónia d'Astónaco. Whether it should be or not is another question. 1.126.110.204 (talk) 20:56, 2 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Salutation #9

I am seeing many conflictions on Salutation #9's translation. While EWTN states the end of this salutation as "conducted in the life to come to Heaven." an equal number of sources state it as "conducted hereafter to eternal glory". Though these other sources hold no discrepancies with the other salutations that I noticed, only this one, was curious if anyone has any information on why this is or which form of salutation #9 is older or correct. Thank you! 74.36.144.101 (talk) 08:45, 31 December 2021 (UTC)DCC[reply]

https://traditionalcatholicprayers.com/2019/09/28/chaplet-st-michael/ https://www.thecatholiccrusade.com/uploads/2/3/9/1/23919873/st._michael_chaplet_-_for_website_.pdf (in latin) http://www.boston-catholic-journal.com/chaplet-of-st-michael-in-latin-and-english.htm

As far as I can tell, the "official" version is the Italian one from the Raccolta, which can be found here: https://books.google.com/books?id=TCOL4zhv-wMC&newbks=0&newbks_redir=0&pg=PA271#v=onepage&q&f=false Obviously this is not the original version since the original would not have been in Italian, but this is the one which carried the indulgence. It was then translated into English. The official British translation is here: https://books.google.com/books?id=1qtVAAAAcAAJ&newbks=0&newbks_redir=0&pg=PA254#v=onepage&q&f=false And the official American translation is here: https://books.google.com/books?id=7wlFAAAAYAAJ&newbks=0&newbks_redir=0&pg=PA301#v=onepage&q&f=false So those two English translations are (were?) the Church-approved ones. I do not know where the other English versions come from or if any of them are also Church-approved or not. (Interestingly, the EWTN version switches the order of the Virtues and the Powers.)

I don't believe there was ever an official Latin version. I think the Latin versions are just fan translations which were created relatively recently, by trads.

For the ninth salutation in particular, the three official versions which I've cited are all more or less in agreement: "e poi condotti alla gloria sempiterna de' Cieli" / "and after death a happy entrance into the everlasting glory of heaven". 2601:49:8400:26B:7CA4:5261:60AD:AD70 (talk) 16:01, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the prayer text

As somebody said back in 2012, the full text of the prayer does not belong here, but may be appropriate for Wikisource. (But I think it should come from a more official source. The one that I've removed was at best a secondary source, having been taken from a religious community's website.) 2601:49:8400:26B:7CA4:5261:60AD:AD70 (talk) 16:13, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've again removed the prayer text

Somebody added the prayer text back into the article, and this time the sources have been cited, so it is a little better than before, but I am again removing it. Those are still not official primary sources though, and, frankly, I think that's a corrupted version because the Powers is supposed to come before the Virtues, at least in all the official versions that I have looked at. Here are links:

1857, London: https://books.google.com/books?id=DeoCAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA254#v=onepage&q&f=false and https://books.google.com/books?id=1qtVAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA254#v=onepage&q&f=false
1865, Rome: https://books.google.com/books?id=TCOL4zhv-wMC&pg=PA271#v=onepage&q&f=false
1878, Woodstock College, Maryland: https://books.google.com/books?id=7wlFAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA301#v=onepage&q&f=false
1880, London: https://books.google.com/books?id=6O4CAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA259#v=onepage&q&f=false

That's just what I've found; there may be more. Those three English versions each have different wording from one another, but they are all translations from the Italian (I do not have a link to the earlier Italian version so I don't know how it compares to the 1865 Italian version). So there are official versions that we can use, but I am still not going to add the text because it really doesn't belong here. (Wikipedia is for encyclopedia articles. Full texts belong on Wikisource (https://wikisource.org/), not Wikipedia.) 2601:49:8400:26B:59F3:EA89:620:E973 (talk) 14:25, 9 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]