Talk:Chair yoga

Possible antecedents of "Chair Yoga"

An IP has edited the article, commenting that "As long as people were ill, injured or disabled, they made yoga accessible by adapting it for their needs in a chair or wheelchair, even if not formally called 'chair yoga.'" This may well be true, in the sense that people did exercises in chairs, but without reliable documentary evidence it remains somewhere between speculation, opinion, and hearsay, none of which are allowed on Wikipedia (see the policy called "Original Research"). The basic point is that reliable sources are required. Further, even if such sources can be found, they would not be "Chair Yoga" but its unnamed prehistory, i.e. the IP is also correct in saying "not formally called 'chair yoga'", and any such material would go in a section called "Antecedents" or something of that sort. For those reasons, I've removed the comments from the article, but am happy to discuss further here on this talk page. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:40, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Chriswick Chap. Thank you for opening up the discussion to make the chair yoga info accurate. To be accurate, was the edit to correct that one yoga teacher founded or “invented” chair yoga let alone in 1982 is simply not correct, not only because yes as I stated, people with disabilities and injuries or illness were doing yoga in wheelchairs or chairs long before that which was technically a term chair yoga, that’s as in fact chair yoga, also there still were other teachers such as Lilias Folan in PBS and in her books and many others who are teaching “chair yoga” and calling it that, and other teachers at taught it at integral yoga ashrams around the world, long before 1982 reference of one teacher starting it. Just as you can’t state that one teacher started yoga in general it’s not accurate to say one person start a chair yoga because it’s simply not true. I just want it to be accurate. Thanks for the update. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:647:302:30B0:A6:CEA3:2328:1F61 (talk) 20:15, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

2601, many thanks for joining the discussion, which has always been open. The point is, as you actually conceded in one of your first edit comments, that yoga-done-with-chairs is not the same as Voelker's "Chair Yoga", and she was certainly the person who first practised and taught it under that name. The article already mentions Iyengar Yoga and nobody doubts that other schools of yoga also sometimes used chairs, even if documentary proof of that is not readily available (and I have a whole shelf of yoga books beside me). I'm familiar with Folan's work but have found no evidence that she called her practice "Chair Yoga"; I believe she simply used a chair as a prop from time to time. I'm glad you want to improve Wikipedia; the mechanism for doing so is however to locate reliable sources, such as textbooks, academic journal papers, and reports in major newspapers and magazines, which other editors can verify: we can't go on hearsay or personal belief. I do hope that's clear, as I've been repeating the point in various ways to a variety of Internet addresses over the past few days. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:30, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you ChadwickChiswick Chap for being so interested in Chair yoga and helping wikepedia stay accurate that you keep editing this page. I am new to Wikipedia so appreciate you reading the repeated attempts went information of mine I submit keeps getting deleted, as I was not clear why or who was running this page or why one person is the sole authority in this page to define a general way to practice yoga. Even facts that a few of us have written about the history of it it was deleted, but I appreciate your need for reference and fax. I did send you a quote from a verified reference today as you asked and need a factual reference so today a verified Swami in 1978 confirmed she taught chair yoga in writing that she read a book on it in 1975 for people who needed yoga adapted -Chair yoga . I think what’s going on here is that your confirming one teachers style only of chair Yoga that she calls her own style, as every teacher has their own name or style of it but that is not entirely Chair Yoga they created but their own way of teaching and practicing it, some gave a name to it and some did not. Chair yoga as a style or title is not in ancient texts. But when it was founded can not be said as only by one teacher, as integral yoga ashrams taught chair yoga as you saw in the 1970’s. You are correct lakshmi Voelker has her own name

Of it for her business but other teachers in 1975 and 1978 and in India and prior taught Chair yoga so it was again not created by in person. Each person may have created their own style and called it their own name but it is all still chair yoga so I still would love to have an accurate on here for those wonderful students looking to inquire about the healing benefits of yoga and to inquire what chair yoga is. It’s only fair that they see the site with the accuracy of when it started not seeing it started in 1982 as Chair Yoga what started in 1982 was that one teacher teaching a certain way of chair yoga with part of the title but the other options as I mentioned and many teachers were already teaching it prior with that name. just because there can’t be an academic article written in the 70s nor maybe is a record of the schedule because it was before Internet days, of Integral yoga calling it chair yoga on the schedule you can see what I wrote from the Swami that in fact confirmed that they were teaching it then. It would be like saying you can’t say people started exercising before 1980 because Reebok step didn’t call it Reebok step exercise. No they were still exercising there just wasn’t that type of exercise copy right name. I hope that makes sense I’m only trying to support you and the wonderful people out there and those with injuries, illness or with disabilities in wheelchairs who are looking for the history of chair yoga and practiced what they called chair yoga in 1970’s and always bc they where in wheelchairs and any yoga using a chair or wheelchair is simple “chair yoga” so the wikepedia page “chair yoga” as a general term needs to reflect that. If someone is in a wheelchair for example, practicing what they call 'chair yoga' and confirmed classes Integral Yoga ashrams taught in 1978 as I sent a reference as you asked, it would be inappropriate and unfair for them to read this inaccurate info that 'chair yoga' in entirely was 'founded' by one person in 1982, which all know is untrue yet this page continues to only allow that as an edit. I am not clear why. So see the swami's email with a book that has 'chair yoga' in 1975, We want to be accurate in what it is. This is in no way promotional as I am not even mentioning my own teaching name nor style nor business but want to include the truth of the history of it as we know it and this site is inaccurate, as everyone is saying on this topic, plain and simple. We all are happy to support the internets accuracy and be true to yoga as a way to help humanity.

What your concluding to define “chair yoga” and forgive me I I am reading it wrong, is only the of one teachers start of her teaching in 1982 and yer name of chair yoga and she’s doing a great job but there are many other people that were teaching it before also, as you saw integral yoga swamis did offer in 1978,.. the other author did in 1975, so let’s be fair to all. We are all happy to help each other learn yoga and not declare anyone has ownership of the style of chair yoga nor found it as the only founder. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:647:302:30B0:2002:C101:4690:D6F6 (talk) 05:20, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

From Bruce Binder, business manager for Lakshmi Voelker Chair Yoga: The Sitting Mountain Series:

Well, there is a second site devoted to Chair Yoga - www.yogawithlakshmi.com. We are pleased to join Mark in supporting this marvelous addition to the Yoga world and to the world of healthcare professionals.

From the author, Mark Franklin:

Please note that I have an interest in the site given under external links. I am aware of Wikipedia's policy on spam and I fully support it. I have given our site as a place for more information because, as far as I know, it is the only web site dedicated to chair yoga. (ChairYoga (talk | contribs) at 23:15, 19 June 2006)

I have tried to update this information because one teacher did not start sure you’ll get 1982 in fact the information below is a reference because you deleted all of my information and said I needed a reference. However there were other teachers such as Lilias Folan and Peggy copy teaching it as well and many others. But here if you need an exact reference is “verbatim” from somebody teaching it and calling at Chair Yoga 1978. Please update this page it is incorrect information and it’s been such for such a while that other people have tried unsuccessfully also go edit it too. I appreciate everyone teaching chair yoga and all who created their own way of teaching it and practicing but we need to be accurate and fair on here that many people have started this not one person creating the style it was out of need from many teachers helping and teaching chair yoga at ashrams like integral yoga in 1970’s as I mentioned prior (but then got my edits deleted yet again). Here is the reference you asked as proof. I’m not clear why one person is controlling this page definition when it’s not correct updated information and other people keep trying to edit it with correct info that many people started this long before 1980 but I don’t know why this keeps changing back to 1982 as one person creating it (as we all keep saying, it’s just not accurate.)

“Information from Swami Vidyananda, Integral Yoga Teacher Trainer, Satchidananda Ashram–Yogaville:

Absolutely incorrect information on Wikipedia.

My original copy of Easy does it Yoga (Chair Yoga) by Alice Christensen is copyrighted 1975 by the Light of Yoga society.

I started teaching Chair Yoga in 1978 or 1979 before I knew of this book because I had to adapt Integral Yoga for a student with paraplegia. So I innovated, without any training, and did a decent job of it.

I still use the poses I taught that student in the Integral Yoga Stress Management Teacher Training program.

Later, I was trained in the Easy does it Yoga tradition. —— Rev. Prem Anjali, Ph.D. Director, Integral Yoga Media & Archives 108 Yogaville Way Buckingham, VA 23921 media@integralyoga.org www.IntegralYoga.org” — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.126.62.40 (talk) 02:14, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Reference as you asked of confirmed chair yoga classes in 1978 and NOT created by one teacher by any means, just always teachers and students adapting yoga using chairs and calling it chair yoga when students needed:

Information from Swami Vidyananda, Integral Yoga Teacher Trainer, Satchidananda Ashram–Yogaville:

Absolutely incorrect information on Wikipedia.

My original copy of Easy does it Yoga (Chair Yoga) by Alice Christensen is copyrighted 1975 by the Light of Yoga society.

I started teaching Chair Yoga in 1978 or 1979 before I knew of this book because I had to adapt Integral Yoga for a student with paraplegia. So I innovated, without any training, and did a decent job of it.

I still use the poses I taught that student in the Integral Yoga Stress Management Teacher Training program.

Later, I was trained in the Easy does it Yoga tradition. —— Rev. Prem Anjali, Ph.D. Director, Integral Yoga Media & Archives 108 Yogaville Way Buckingham, VA 23921 media@integralyoga.org www.IntegralYoga.org — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:647:302:30B0:2002:C101:4690:D6F6 (talk) 02:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Guys, many thanks for your replies, and delighted to meet you all. Prem, you did splendid work using chairs way back when. However, the article is about Voelker-Binder's "Chair Yoga" (thus capitalized), not everyone else's yoga-done-using-chairs-and-other-props, and that is a crucial difference.

The key facts are as follows:

1) Wikipedia only allows verifiable claims in articles, i.e. they can be checked by other editors. Personal knowledge is helpful if it points to sources that other people can check, e.g. textbooks, academic papers, national newspapers; it is forbidden if unsupported as that is unverifiable.

2) Alice Christensen's Easy Does it Yoga certainly uses chairs, as does Iyengar Yoga (already cited in the article) and no doubt many other schools which may have predated Voelker-Binder, but Voelker-Binder verifiably used the NAME "Chair Yoga" and they didn't, that is all. The term "Chair Yoga" does not occur in the index to Christensen's book: she simply calls the work "chair exercises", and she was one of several yoga teachers to use such things, nobody doubts it; Christensen also has "swimming pool exercises" and "standing exercises" and "strengtheners" and "exercises for bed or floor" and "bed routine exercises" but you aren't suggesting she taught "Bed Yoga" or "Swimming Pool Yoga".

3) I'm happy to mention Christensen (will do so) but that antecedent does not invalidate Voelker-Binder's well-documented claim to be the first to teach something CALLED "Chair Yoga". In a way, the article you are all calling for would be Yoga using chairs or Yoga for seniors using chairs and other props or Yoga using props something of that sort; it may very well be that we should create such an article; but it would not be the same as THIS article. I do hope this is clear.

4) I am replying to you now, and improving the article as I do so, but I am just one of many editors who will tell you the same thing: Wikipedia policy requires Verifiability to Cited Sources. These are key "pillars" of the encyclopedia - the whole thing depends on reliable information. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:29, 28 November 2020 (UTC)