Talk:Chain sinnet

New article

Some of this text was moved from an older version of chain stitch where it was combined with the chain stitch sewing stitch. I have separated them. This is also discussed under daisy chain which I have linked here. A Google search suggests that "daisy chain" is a more common name than "chain stitch".

A sailor or other expert on knots and ropes is encouraged to expand and correct this. Please! - PKM 22:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I may be technically a sailor, but when I have used this in sailing circles I have been met by opprobrium. However it is very much an accepted way to stow caving ropes. Typically the rope is halved twice to make a 4 strands before being "chained" with the last link pulled through. To recover the rope you undo the last link, and simply pull to recover a rope with no residual twist, this can be an important advantage with kernmantel ropes of significant length that you intend to abseil down. Other coiling techniques do not guarantee no twist, and some introduce it, and it is possible (in single rope caving) to find yourself unable to reach a rebelay through the tangle of badly coiled rope, so it can actually be quite important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.223.243 (talk) 03:29, 23 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I believe you were right to split the articles. As far as this article's title goes, the term chain sinnet is probably the least ambiguous and appears to be the common/traditional name. Unless there are objections, I propose the article be moved there. Incidentally, there's actually a whole chapter in ABOK on these; the one currently described in the article is only the most basic form. Chain sinnets are structurally more akin to knitting or crocheting than they are to knots per se, but they usually seem to be classed as knots in that they are described in knot books rather than as some sort of textile art. In fact, spool knitting is actually used to form some of the more complex sinnets. --Dfred (talk) 12:21, 10 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I moved the article to Chain sinnet and did some cleanup. --Dfred (talk) 21:59, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Difference from ABoK 1715?

How does this knot differ from ABoK 1715? I don't have the book, but the German Wikipedia describes a very similar knot in de:Anbindeknoten (scroll to the bottom), which they say is ABoK 1715. So I wonder if it's the same or not, i.e. whether there should be interwiki links. Thanks, Ibn Battuta (talk) 20:07, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That image (shown at right) shows a variation on #1715. The linked DE article is for what in English would be called a "Slipped noose" or a "Slipped overhand noose". Ashley calls #1715 a "slipped noose hitch" and it has the free end of a slipped noose simply tucked once into the loop to lock it, rather than finished the repeated chain sinnet style shown in the DE image. However, another wrinkle regarding the naming is that Ashley calls that exact same knot the "Halter hitch" (for tying up animals) in several other places in the book (e.g. #243, #1804, #1826), so that would probably be the preferred name and would probably deserve another article. It is on my todo list. The knot pictured to the right is actually #1827, which he calls the "Chain slipknot" and suggests it is a useful variaion to the "Halter hitch" to stow excess rope length when the end is very long. --Dfred (talk) 15:33, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Spelling

It appears to me that the usual spelling is "sennit," rather than "sinnet." I suggest that it at least be mentioned that there are alternative spellings. It might be more in keeping with usage to entitle the article "Chain sennit," and to have a link to it from "Chain sinnet." Leximont (talk)

Yes, this is a common alternate spelling, and I've added it to the article. Thanks for the suggestion. Regarding renaming and redirects, the ABOK has the following to say with regard to the various forms of this word:

There are several forms of the word sinnet, among them synet, sennet, sennett, sennit and sinnit. But the older sailors that I have known have invariably pronounced the word sinnet; and the early and best nautical authorities − Captain John Smith (1627), Sir Henry Manwayring (1644), Thomas Blanckley (1750), and R.H. Dana (1841) − agree on the spelling as I give it.

Falconer (1769) appears to be responsible for the present dictionary form of the word, sennit, which he attempts to derive from seven plus knit. But the sailor is perhaps more familiar with netting than he is with knitting, and I hazard that sin(gle) plus net is a more plausible derivation, and that most derivations are mere guesswork anyway.
— Clifford Ashley, ABOK, 1944, p. 471

The Wiktionary entry for sennit suggests the French coussinet, which tellingly is spelled with 'i' then 'e' rather than the order in the referred word. Also interesting the entry for sennet is related to the call of a trumpet, the cords of which are often formed into sinnets. It suffices to say the orthography, origin, and subtleties of distinct meaning for these similar words is complex... Getting this info into encyclopedic shape and adding to this and related articles (in particular braid) would be an area ripe for improvement. The OED would probably be a good place to start. --Dfred (talk) 07:23, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

'figure eight chain sinnet'

Does somebody know the Abok number for this,

,SignedJohnsonL623 (talk) 10:27, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]