Talk:Celtic Music (record label)

Scope

This article is intended to convey factual information about the Celtic Music record label and its releases of interest to followers of the Folk Revival. It replaces a previous article of the same name which was deleted on account of containing mainly opinions (published and unpublished) regarding the ethical nature of the business dealings of the owner of CM which have been widely discussed elsewhere but are not considered suitable subject matter for an encyclopedic article of this type. I hope users will find the present article of more value and also assist to fill any gaps as noted. Tony 1212 (talk) 03:42, 22 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Anonymous user 176.35.137.56 has just added the following text:

"Controversies: On November 30th 2018, It emerged that Celtic had won a legal battle with Domino over Domino's 2017 re-release of Mike and Lal Waterson's 1972 album Bright Phoebus (Celtic owned the rights to the recordings and had released a CD-R reissue in 2000, both of dubious legality and dubious quality). Mike and Lal's niece let on on twitter that Celtic had never paid a single penny to either of Lal or Mike's families, leading to notable folk musicians suggesting a boycott of Celtic's releases."

While this is indeed the case, it refers to Celtic's business practices (outside the scope of this article as stated above) and also to an album not recorded by/originally released on Celtic Music; so far as I can see, the Bulmer/Celtic re-release (CDR) was on the label "LESCD2076" not a CM number (my source is https://www.discogs.com/Lal-Mike-Waterson-Bright-Phoebus/master/703849). Accordingly I have deleted the entered text, which is also full of POV/poor wording - even though I fully agree with the sentiment, it does not belong here. If someone wants to start a page on "Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer business practices", that is where it would go, although one would have to be very careful what could be said there; similar stuff led to the original Wikipedia page "Celtic Music" being taken down. Tony 1212 (talk) 18:21, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Whilst I agree the album was not recorded by or originally released by Celtic Music they are the Legal owners of the label (Leader & Leader/Trailer and as such the iformation is relevant to the Celtic Music page. I must also comment on the CDR comment which you make which is actually incorrect. The original CD release of Bright Phoebus was actually a pressed CD (which from memory I believe was pressed at DADC in Austria (according to the plant information in the centre of my copy)) I do understand however that there was then a limited run of CDR copies made due to lack of demand and the costs involved in a re-press at the time. There seems to be a lot of fake news flying around in relation to the activities and releases undertaken by Celtic Music and or Dave Bulmer (who incidentally was only one of the players in Celtic Muisc's history). From reading the recent press release information it appears that the current players in Celtic Music are asserting the rights of the company and clearing up a lot of the fake news. I suspect that following such a major case there will be more to follow on this story. As I said the information may not be related to the Celtic Music record label as such but it is certainly related to their ownership of rights. I understand that one has to be careful what is said and it may be best to invite the current players in Celtic Music to make a contribution to the page. From the information in the recent press release in relation. To Bright Phoebus I understand that they can be contacted at media@celtic-music.co.uk and on the phone +44 (0) 330 010 2289. They are obviously open to sensible discussion else they would not have laid themselves open to the world by releasing a press release with their contact details on (I must note this contact section of the press release was missed off most of the Twitter frenzy that seems to have ensued today). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.18.180 (talk) 18:51, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Celtic Music are the legal owners of lots of stuff including Leader, Trailer, Rubber Records, Black Crow, Dambuster, Highway, Sweet Folk and Country, Greenwich Village, Mulligan, Broadside, Folk Heritage, and Making Waves, as noted in passing in the page, but this page is a factual listing about releases on the CM label. I do note the present controversy about the release/s of "Bright Phoebus" but as already stated, unless there is a citable published source saying that any of the re-releases were under the CM label, that information does not belong here (as well as being a potential minefield, refer numerous threads on Dave Bulmer/Celtic Music at www.mudcat.org). Sorry and all that. The original "Celtic Music" Wikipedia page went down that path and was removed.Tony 1212 (talk) 19:05, 1 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Missing entries

At time of writing (May 2016) I have no information for the following potential CM release numbers: 032, 037, 044, 049, 051-053, 059, 061, 068, 071-076, 082-088. Any additional info on these numbers (if used) would be welcome. Tony 1212 (talk) 23:10, 23 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

@Vmavanti:User Vmavanti has added "Refimprove|date=June 2018", having removed my previous statement of sources for the discography which cited https://www.discogs.com/label/86508-Celtic-Music, https://rateyourmusic.com, http://www.45cat.com/label/celtic-music and http://www.musicstack.com, being the main sources I used; Vmavanti commented "these are unreliable sources because they are crowd sourced". However there appear to be no better listings at this time; I have reinstated mention of the largest (www.discogs.com) and removed the template (since I believe the body text is adequately sourced). So far as I can see in other articles, sourcing is not generally used anyway for individual items in discographies, I am guessing since the items themselves count as published works and are therefore self-referencing. (BTW I have a number of the albums in question in my collection, but I am not imagining I need to prove that they exist by any other manner). Thoughts, anyone? Regards - Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 19:43, 2 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In the light of my thoughts above, I have removed the link to www.discogs.com from "references" and added it as an external link instead. Hope that suits. Regards - Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 21:43, 2 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]