Talk:Caucasian Shepherd Dog/Archive 1

Archive 1

Copyright

I do not understand the phrase in the original edit summary. This is from Molosserdogs.com and can not be used freely without modification. Wikipedia requires all the materials to be available by GFDL and be freely modifiable - that is wiki is for. abakharev 09:43, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I may not understand the edit summary correctly. Do you mean that we are not allowed to modify the article or that it is OK with the copyright owner not to modify it? abakharev 09:47, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi Alex - I understand. This is the best information on this breed. I am submitting it to wikipedia under your conditions of the GFDL. It is freely modifiable. I do think that in short order the material will probably be so modified as to be far away from the original. However, when I learn how to put a link with the article - I'll add and external link to www.molosserdogs.com and www.caucasian.org both are my sites.

Thank you so much. I have lots to learn here. {{Maximus 08:41, 13 February 2006 (UTC)}}

Don't forget to sign your posts, you can do so with ~~~~ (four tildes in a row)... As for the links to your sites, I added them for you, you just do it like this: * [http://www.caucasian.org www.caucasian.org] .... Hope that helps! (we own a Belgian Malinois, another fairly esoteric shepherd breed) Happy editing! ++Lar: t/c 00:36, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't this be redirected to more precise name of the breed - "Caucasian Shepherd" - Alsandro · T · w:ka: Th · T 03:23, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Wow, What?

"Ovcharka AKA caucasian mountain dogs are used to hide amongst sheep in herds. A pack of wolves (3 or 4) will attack the sheep not noticing the Ovcharka, and the dog will throw down with a couple wolves at the same time. The fur is several layers and thick giving the wolves teeth the inability to reach its flesh. They are loyal to their duty in protecting their flock and family and will stand by and defend through any circumstance. Unfortunatly they are often misrepresented as being dangerous and violent, when in fact they are not unless there is a threat or a perceived threat to family and home."

...This needs a rewrite. Badly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.212.217.196 (talk) 22:18, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Names in native languages

Please provide native translations for Cuacasian Shepard Dog. There was one but someone deleted it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.198.202.7 (talk) 09:37, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Central Asian Ovcharka / Sredneaziatskaya Ovtcharka

The name Caucasian Ovcharka is how it is known in English. I think this is a case of adopting a new word into the language no different than enchilada or, for another dog example "The name "dachshund" is of German origin and literally means "badger dog", from Dachs ("badger") and Hund ("dog")" yet we don't list Badger Dog as title for it's entry.

A simple search of the term Caucasian Ovcharka and Caucasian Shepherd give very different results. Wikipedia should reflect the reality of what is, not try and change something

thanks

174.20.54.158 (talk) 06:12, 18 June 2010 (UTC)Andrew

Hi, I'd like to write an article on the Central Asian Ovcharka (aka Sredneaziatskaya Ovtcharka or CAO). Since it's related to the Caucasian Ovcharka I though I'd mention it here. Also, it will require a disambiguation of Ovcharka to clarify that there are two (or, some would say three) different kinds of ovcharkas. Everyone OK with this?Osli73 (talk) 22:12, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Shepherd not Ovcharka!

Ovcharka simply means Shepherd in Russian language. If the article is written in English, why aren't some words translated?

I aggree. The term Ovcarka is a litteral translation of Shepherd, not the name place of origin. Ulterior (talk) 18:14, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

---

You are correct, the translated name should be: "Caucasian Shepherd" while transliterated is "Kavkazskaya Ovcharka"

131.247.19.186 (talk) 18:39, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. #1 Caucasian Ovcharka is the name by which it is most known in the west, it is the name of the dog. #2 When 'importing' a new breed to an English speaking country (both physically and linguistically) it is common practice to add the native name (which may contain a general dog term) in as a new word.

Examples:

1. 1 Dachshund literally means Dashs (Badger) Hund (Dog). Wikipedia has not changed the name of that breed entry to Badger Dog.
2. 2 Affenpinscher literally means 'monkey or ape' pinscher
3. 3 Dogue de Bordeaux literally means Dog from/of the Bordeaux Region Similarly Dogo Argentino, Can Corso, Presa Canario, all meaning 'dog' from region X
4. 4 Petit Basset Griffon Vendéen litterally meaning small (petit) basset (low to ground) Griffon (wire coat) from Vendeen (note how many breeds of french origin contain the word Griffon?)
5. 5 Norwegian Lundehund, Finnish Lapphund, Drentsche Patrijshond, Kooikerhondje, all with a non-english word that translates as hound or dog tacked onto the end. We don't 'translate' any of these to dog or hound for wikipedia title entries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.20.91.8 (talk) 17:19, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

All right; I've taken my time to take a look at the sites of various organizations of different countries who have named the Caucasian Shepherd. But you know what I found out? Well, let me show it to you:

American Kennel Club (America) talks about a Caucasian Ovcharka. Caucasian Ovcharka (mountain dog)

United Kennel Club (international) calls it a Caucasian Ovcharka, mentioning it is sometimes called Caucasian Mountain Dog. Caucasian Ovcharka

The FCI (international) first names Kavkazskaïa Ovtcharka and adds a translation of the name, which they have made Caucasian Shepherd Dog. Caucasian Shepherd Dog

The Raad van Beheer (Netherlands) calls it the Kaukasische Ovcharka. Kaukasische Ovcharka

The Verband für das Deutche Hundewesen (Germany) names it the Kaukasischer Owtscharka. Kaukasischer Owtscharka

The Federation Canofila Mexicana (Mexico) calls it the Pastor del Caucaso. Pastor del Caucaso

My conclusion is that the term 'Ovcharka' isn't that alien. It is a commonly used word when referring to this breed of dog. So, with this in mind, in addition to what the person above me stated, along with other people on this talk page that stated many other breeds have their names spelled with indigenous terms... I'd say 'Caucasian Shepherd' would preferrably be changed to 'Caucasian Ovcharka', with in the first lines of the article it being said that other names for this breed are Caucasian Shepherd Dog and Caucasian Mountain Dog. Avietar (talk) 11:34, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

1. There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
2. It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
3. In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 00:07, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Ovcharka Prison Guard Dogs

Ovcharkas are also prison gaurd dogs. In Vladimir Central Prison they have many Ovcharkas in cages that bark and growl to try and intimadate imates into submission. These dogs where also trained for the Russian Army. Why is none of this information in this artical? (Mudak568 (talk) 11:57, 1 January 2014 (UTC)) Mudak568 (talk) 11:57, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Citations

Dog breed articles drive me nuts when browsing Wikipedia. They are often heavily lacking in citaitons, and this article is no different. You CAN'T say "breed X is usually Y" without backing it up with a reputable source. Even worse, many anthropomorphize exclusively human traits ("truly a thinking dog") which can not be legitimately provided citations for. PLEASE clean up this article before most of it has to be "cite needed" tagged and removed. Alvis 05:23, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

It also looks very strange that the article says they have no maximum height. Does that mean they can grow to two meters or more? Surely not. I'm sure this is about dog show requirements for the breed, but it says nothing about reality, which I think would be more relevant to an encyclopedia. This is not just a reference for dog breeders, but also for lay people who want to know what a Caucasian Shepherd is. This article suggests they're about 70 cm tall, or maybe they can grow up to two meters. I've seen photos where they appear to be a meter tall. It's kinda useless information in that regard. If this is the best available, at least mention specifically that these are dog show requirements, perhaps mention the organization that made these rules, and of course cite that source. (Mcvos (talk) 08:28, 10 August 2012 (UTC))

How about [1]? Breeder's directory is usually very detailed, but all we have is the archive. 216.58.122.145 (talk) 10:59, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Infobox and appearance sections discrepancy

Going by the info box, the breed is a toy sized breed, while the appearance section of the article has a much larger size. Anyone know about this breed and can fix this?Wzrd1 (talk) 04:07, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Reverting vandalism by the usual suspect. Thank you for drawing attention to it. It is an on-going irritation. — Gareth Griffith-Jones | The Welsh | Buzzard |  10:56, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Caucasian Shepherd Dog/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Needs health section. Appearance and temperament sections should be expanded. There seems to be some anthropomorphisation in the temperament section (e.g. "it respects and obeys only those dominant members of the family that it deems superior to itself"). Needs references, and more photos would be beneficial. --Pharaoh Hound (talk) 22:50, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Substituted at 21:37, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

Reference Aggression

As a reference is the website DAILY FOREST. This appears to be a website without any kind of press credentials. There's no information about who the person writing it is, if it's a company or what they base the actual article on. Because of this I'm removing this section. If someone has a problem with this, get a real source for the information. If it is reinstated without a proper source I'll try and find some kind of moderator or similiar to arbitrate on the matter.

To clarify; I'm not saying ovcharkas are not aggressive, I'm making no judgements at all - I'm saying the reference isn't even REMOTELY close to being either a valid, a good or useable source they way it is presenting itself. Might just go collect information on geocities hompages.146.247.83.89 (talk) 18:20, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Someone is consantly rewriting place of origin to Georgia

Although all sources refer to the place of origin as the Soviet Union. The Caucasian Shepherd has been bred from existing dog breeds for border control and labor camps. --Kovanja (talk) 08:55, 11 March 2020 (UTC)

Subjective phrasing

The phrasing relating to the cropping of ears is phrased in a leading way. It asserts that those that work more with dogs, thus know better would choose for cropping of the ears. However, there is no citations. 90.249.94.105 (talk) 20:33, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Good point. It's almost as if they are not actually talking about the ears as there is no effect on the dog's health either way, though there are those that claim that cropping helps cut down on ear infections. I could re-right that segment but as there is little written on the practice from an objective standpoint, anything I would write from experience would be uncited and an edit war would break out.BigWhiteFireDog (talk) 23:07, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: https://web.archive.org/web/20050414234556/http://www.molosserdogs.com/modules.php?name=Encyclopedia&op=content&tid=1224. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 14:52, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Note: The initial version of the page was copied wholesale from an external source in 2006. Much of it had been edited out over the years; the remaining content had no accessible source (one dead link), so I made no attempt to rewrite any of it. It was not about this breed. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 14:52, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Caucasian Shepherd Dog misunderstanding

Message below has been relocated from my Talk page, which is not the appropriate place to discuss matters relating specifically to this article. William Harristalk 08:15, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello. The information regarding the Caucasian Shepherd Dog was inaccurate and did not reflect the true history of the breed. I filled the article with useful information supported by citations from reliable sources. One source I used was a book by the famous Russian Cynologist Aleksandr Mazover where he first described the Caucasian Shepherd Dogs. Unfortunately, I couldn't find an English translation of the book, but there is a translation feature in the browser that offers automatic translation. Keep in mind that this is the book that first described the Caucasian Shepherd Dogs. Hence, it's essential for adequate description of the breed's history. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caucasian Man (talk • contribs) 16:13, 27 August 2020 (UTC)