Talk:Catherine of Aragon/Archive 4

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

I think we should change the portrait

The portrait shown has been proved posthumous and is attributed to the wrong artist. It is not an accurate depiction of the Queen in her life and therefore I think it should be changed to a contemporary portrait.

Kay930615 (talk) 19:11, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

@Kay930615: Perhaps you could suggest a better image? There might be something in commons:Category:Catherine of Aragon that would be appropriate. Also, as a general rule of thumb, it is better to propose (and argue for) the specific changes you want than to enumerate the problems with the status quo. Wikipedia being entirely volunteer run, it's much easier to get feedback on a specific change than participants in an open-ended discussion. And if worse comes to worse, if nobody ventures an opinion in a reasonable period after you have proposed the change, you may go ahead and assume you have consensus for your proposal. --Xover (talk) 20:58, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

References

The trouble is, there is no portrait of any quality (afaik) that certainly depicts Catherine. There are some very high-quality portraits that might depict her. Meanwhile the present nonsense caption (an insult to Hornebolte, who would never have produced anything so poor) should be changed. The Sitter page of the NPG shows the best options - the "new" Lambeth portrait is probably the best. Johnbod (talk) 22:04, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Catherine of Aragon.... or Catherine of Spain ?

because her mother was Isabella, queen of Castile, she was not only princess of Aragon, but of all Spain. Would it be more correct to say Catherine of Spain ? - --80.28.231.217 (talk) 19:02, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

No. She's never called that, and there was no formal kingdom of Spain in her early lifetime. Johnbod (talk) 23:10, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

and she was pricess of Navarre as well .---88.17.241.194 (talk) 18:47, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

name

to quote this article: "Catherine herself signed her name "Katherine" . . ._ but wikipedia persists in using the C form. A bit arrogant, don't you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.147.110.36 (talk) 16:15, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

“Catherine” is the standard spelling in the literature and has been since basically forever; “Katherine” is only ever mentioned as an aside. It’s not our job to attempt to create new conventions. Arrogance has nothing to do with it. — Hux (talk) 19:12, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

"Catherine" is unquestionably wrong, but it has been the common usage for so long, it's not Wikipedia's place to fix it. It is worth noting that "Katherine" (and variations - all with a "K") was what she used and the article does that. I do wish someone could track down a source that shows when it got changed in common usage.128.151.71.16 (talk) 16:15, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

But why is it unquestionably wrong? Joan of Arc did not call herself "Joan", nor did King John sign his name "John". It has never been common to refer to historical people by the names they themselves used. Surtsicna (talk) 20:38, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Because spelling may have been fluid during her lifetime, but (as far as I can find) she never used a "C" once she came to England and Anglicized her name to "Katherine"/"Katherina"/"Katharine"/"Katharina". King John signed "J. Reg", not "Geon" or something. I'm all for modernized and standardized spelling, but when "Katherine" is still a perfectly good English-language name, there's no good reason (except tradition) to spell it any other way.128.151.71.16 (talk) 13:21, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

WP:RS is the good reason. Enough of this please. Johnbod (talk) 18:12, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Spelling of her name?

I know there are a bunch of different spellings of her name, but wouldn't it make since to have the title of the article have her name at least start with a K since it was never spelled with a C in history? Since her grave had Katharine, wouldn’t it make since to have that spelling? Or can someone explain why it has to start with C? Meredithgp (talk) 06:53, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

See 2 sections up. Johnbod (talk) 17:07, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Edit request

I want the issue section of the page to be edited to make it easier to read and have more concise information. The information I would add would be the dates, sexes, names, and sources. (I think all the current extra information is unnecessary.) I will happily send through the information for someone else to edit if required. Branloaf (talk) 13:06, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 October 2021

Even though she died without Mary or Henry by her side, she did have one friend with her. Maria des Salinas was one of Catherine's former ladies in waiting, who would break rules just to be by Catherine's side. When Maria found out that Catherine's days were drawing close, she rode a horse to Kimbolton Castle while it was snowing heavily. Back then, she was told by Henry VIII that she would have a consequence if she visited Catherine. But, since she heard of Catherine not being well, she broke the rule. She stayed by Catherine's side till the end, and Catherine died while Maria was holding her in her arms. Phichitspinner (talk) 17:03, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:09, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

Appearance

There are no "Appearance" sections in wiki entries for men. It is sexist and should be removed. 73.171.41.131 (talk) 12:24, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 May 2022

Change Catherine to Katherine, as based on the information on her tomb source https://www.peterborough-cathedral.org.uk/home/katharine-of-aragon.aspx HALMAM (talk) 21:49, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Also see Catherine of Aragon#Spelling of her name and WP:COMMONNAME Cannolis (talk) 21:55, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 June 2022

HistoricalWyd (talk) 21:31, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Please don't add an empty request. If you have real concrete edit request please reactivate this request. NickyLam12 (talk | contrib) 02:09, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Bibliography

Cahill Marrón, Emma Luisa (2022). Arte y magnificencia en la construcción de la imagen de poder femenino a comienzos de la Edad Moderna : la reina Catalina de Aragón y la cultura del Renacimiento,Digitum. DrCahillMarron (talk) 00:53, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 December 2022

While Henry VIII annulled his marriage as head of the Church of England in 1533, this was never recognized by the Catholic Church or Catherine of Aragon herself. As Europe at the time was predominantly Catholic it should be noted under spouse and tenure that she and many others never recognized the annulment, and saw her as the queen and wife of Henry VIII until her death in 1536. RedAssassin32 (talk) 01:26, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. RealAspects (talk) 02:20, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Edit is needed for opening sentence

>Edit is needed for opening sentence. "Catherine of Aragon (also spelt as Katherine, Spanish: Catalina; 16 December 1485 – 7 January 1536) was Queen of England as the first wife of King Henry VIII from their marriage on 11 June 1509 until their annulment on 23 May 1533." The marriage was never annulled. It should be "Catherine of Aragon (also spelt as Katherine, Spanish: Catalina; 16 December 1485 – 7 January 1536) was Queen of England as the only legitimate wife of King Henry VIII from their marriage on 11 June 1509 until January 7, 1536. (Henry VIII falsely created himself head of an illegitimate denomination with no authority to dissolve the marriage. "their sham of a annulment on 23 May 1533 was and is illegitimate." 45.58.38.175 (talk) 23:32, 22 December 2022 (UTC)

I think it's fine as it is. Celia Homeford (talk) 11:49, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 April 2023

Please add the following template to the bottom of the article:

2601:249:9301:D570:ED46:5CCB:F533:719E (talk) 03:54, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Done. Dimadick (talk) 06:13, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Marriage rules

The Hebrew Levirate Marriage Law mandated a man to marry his brother's widow; spilling semen in ground in order of not having his brother's widow pregnant was the reason the Bible states for death of Onan. Saint Killian Bishop of Würzburg in Franken, got martyrdom when refusing to bless an identical marriage of a powerful man with his brother's widow. If Old Testament precluded a young woman to marry her closer available relative, as in the history of Tobias, not accepted in Hebrew Bible, the Roman Law, there, the 'Pontifex maximus' was in charge of law, specially family law, and of pagan worship, last Caesar offered pontificate, Gratian 2, refused it because he was Christian, in ancient Rome consanguineous marriages were banned up to seventh grade. This adds to understand the situation of nul or not marriage of Henry and Catherina. Blessings + 81.44.109.142 (talk) 21:49, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Her name in historical Spanish which was supposedly Catharina

Relatively recently an edit was made in her title to suggest her actual historical name was Catharina and the source provided is from 1691. While I won't edit it out, there are several sources from the late 1400s and early 1500s that invariably refer to her and women of the same name as either Catalina or Cathalina, not Catharina. Many of the original manuscripts can be found in this archive: https://pares.mcu.es/ParesBusquedas20/catalogo/find?nm=&texto=catalina+de+aragon Reicastell (talk) 20:38, 8 April 2024 (UTC)