Talk:Castles Crumbling/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Pamzeis (talk · contribs) 00:53, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Hiya, Infsai. I'll be reviewing this article (also side note, this is my fave SNTV vault song). I will try not to screw anything up. Pamzeis (talk) 00:53, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Hey Pamzeis! Thank you to take your time to look at my article, I'll try to apply your suggestions as swiftly as possible. infsai (talkie? UwU) 12:47, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

...was the pun intended? Pamzeis (talk) 12:30, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Prose

• Written by Swift, who produced the track with Jack Antonoff, it was included — Sounds a bit awkward... can this be reworded?
• it seems to be influenced by — "seems" seems (pun intended) to be stating stuff in wikivoice. It could be something like journalists interpreted that it was influenced by... or something?
• it earned comparisons to → it was compared to (nothing to "earn" here, per se)
• , due to similar theme, ... , hence its lyrics contrast each other, — are these bits lead-worthy? It seems like too specific detail for the lead to me, and it makes the sentence look a bit loaded with info
• stop of her the Eras Tour → stop of the Eras Tour or stop of her Eras Tour
• rock band Paramore Hayley Williams, have — there's either a missing comma or an extra comma here

  Up until this point, everything changed - please read the article's lead now, and tell me if it's ok.

• Both singers always supported each other, and performed "That's What You Get" together during Nashville stop on Speak Now World Tour in 2011.[16][17] In the following years, Williams made a cameo in Swift's "Bad Blood" music video (2015), and her band is a support act during the Eras Tour. — I'm not sure all of this is necessary... can we just say that they have collaborated since X?

  Multiple sources included these informations, so included them in the article. Especially, since Swift and Williams never collaborated in the official way until "Castles Crumbling", so I think it's fitting to include it here in Background section.

• Swift used to reference its title — what does "used to" mean here? Did she remove the lyric?
• drew connections to "Bejeweled" clip (2022) which had → drew connections to the "Bejeweled" music video (2022), which had

  Changed both. I'm gonna apply the following comments after the weekend.

• Three weeks later, the track had its live performance debut as a piano solo — "live performance debut" sounds a bit awkward, and I'm not sure whether it's necessary to note it was the debut performance. Can we just say something like Swift performed the track live as a piano solo?
• best "surprise song" set of the tour — I think non-Swifties may need an explanation what "surprise songs" are
• while during the second half of the track two singers are harmonizing with each other — I think there are a few grammatical errors in this bit; Is there any way to reword it?
• The singer explained in her 2020 documentary Miss Americana that she assumed that she was booed at. — I understand what it means, but it's a bit vague. I think it needs a bit more elaboration on what happened.
• The chorus sees Swift ensuring someone to not get involved in a relationship with her. — "ensuring" doesn't seem to fit in the context of this sentence?
• Swift, due to her influence over younger generation, introducing them to country music — is the influence specifically about country music? I think the way this is worded is a bit confusing
• The pre-chorus sees the artists sing: "Power went to my head and I couldn't stop / Ones I loved tried to help, so I ran them off". — I love that line, but the article doesn't explain it or anything, so it looks a bit out of place

More to come... Pamzeis (talk) 06:16, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

• on the poll posted by Billboard, it received 16% votes — what poll? Also, is it supposed to be 16% of votes?
• Different connection to Swift's future projects — I don't understand what this bit is saying. Could you clarify?
• authors discussed that — I don't think "discussed" is the right word to use here. Could it be substituted with "thought" or something like that?

Sources

• What makes the following sources reliable:
  • PopBuzz
  • BrooklynVegan
• The New York Post is unreliable per WP:NYPOST
• Spotchecks (version reviewed):
  • fn 2: does not seem to mention Big Machine
  • fn 22: I can't find any mention of Republic. Could you clarify?
  • fn 33: Y (also how is this song longer than 4 minutes; it feels so short to me)
  • fn 34: Y
  • fn 49: Y
  • fn 51: Y
  • fn 54: Y

Overall, it's mostly very minor issues. Putting this article  on hold now :) Pamzeis (talk) 12:27, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

@Infsai: Hiya. Just a courtesy ping, since it's been almost two weeks since I left my last comments. Pamzeis (talk) 12:37, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

@Pamzeis: Hey, I'm sorry for dragging it for so long, but due to some personal reasons I couldn't do any edits. infsai (talkie? UwU) 06:57, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

That's completely fine, but is there possible timeframe you could give? 'Cuz I don't really want to let this drag on for too long. Pamzeis (talk) 16:14, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Pamzeis any updates for this review? — VAUGHAN J. (TALK) 05:52, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

The nom made a few edits at the start of the month, but they’ve been inactive for a few weeks. I’ll give this one another month, and if there are no other improvements by then, I’ll prolly fail it. Pamzeis (talk) 06:34, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Hey Pamzeis I'd prolly take over this review. Do ping me in 1-2 days if you see no edits from my side. Ippantekina (talk) 05:53, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

@Ippantekinda: Pinging as requested. Pamzeis (talk) 08:31, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Re-ping: Ippantekina. Pamzeis (talk) 08:31, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping! I noticed that prose issues have been mostly resolved but I did make some tweaks to the lead. I see that NY Post was removed but not PopBuzz or Brooklyn Vegan. These two sites are apparently music webzines with proper editorial oversight so I think they should be fine for a GA (whether they are FA-appropriate is another topic though). I think it's good to go, but if possible could you examine the prose one last time to see if it's all set? Ippantekina (talk) 02:36, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

@Pamzeis: nudge, Ippantekina (talk) 05:00, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Second look

• Swift wrote the track intending to include it in her third studio album, Speak Now (2010), but ultimately left it out of the track-list. She produced the track with Jack Antonoff for the 2023 re-recording of Speak Now, Speak Now (Taylor's Version). of Swift's third studio album Speak Now (2010). — repeats the OG Speak Now and doesn't have the best wording
• each other, and even performed — "even" is editorialising
• Following the release of "Castles Crumbling", the media outlets reported that Swift referenced its title in the opening line of "Call It What You Want" from Reputation (2017),[20][21] and drew connections to the "Bejeweled" music video (2022), which had a scene of a breaking down castle during which an orchestral version of Speak Now closer "Long Live" was playing. — I'm not the biggest fan of the way this is worded; it's very long—can it be reworked?
• The singer explained in her 2020 documentary Miss Americana that she assumed that she was booed at. — it's not really established that there was booing prior so this bit kinda comes outta nowhere
• the performer thinks that their support — who is "the performer"? Swift?
• Its lyrics focus on the pressure — the second verse's lyrics or the entirety of the song?
• The pre-chorus sees the artists sing: "Power went to my head and I couldn't stop / Ones I loved tried to help, so I ran them off". — I don't think this should be included in the article per WP:NOTLYRICS
• received 16% votes — 16% of votes?
• Additionally, the 2017 album features similar lyrics — "the 2017 album" is a bit confusing. Is there a reason we can't just say Reputation
• Another connection to Swift's future projects was made by Mikael Wood from Los Angeles Times, who compared the song's sonicscape to indie folk sound of Folklore and Evermore (both 2020). — the wording her is pretty awkward IMO
• could be disappointed, due to its "somewhat saccharine tone" and resembling Williams' solo projects. — is this grammatically correct? It feels off to me

I think that's it :) Pamzeis (talk) 06:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Phew, thanks for taking a second look! Tbh I trimmed quite aggressively to reduce fancruft-y stuff or info that stray too much into details that are more suitable for a fanwiki rather than Wikipedia. I think the issues raised should be done now :) Ippantekina (talk) 09:22, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Heyyy @Pamzeis: how does the article look now? Ippantekina (talk) 02:21, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Apologies for the wait. Will take another look by Thursday. Pamzeis (talk) 11:03, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Third look

Sorry for the long wait, but after almost three months, I think this is a  pass :) Pamzeis (talk) 08:25, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed