Talk:Casilda Iturrizar

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: withdrawn by nominator, closed by The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 21:15, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Monument of Casilda Iturrizar

... that Bilbao philanthropist Casilda Iturrizar has a monument (pictured) modeled after her that was created by the Catalonian sculptor Agustín Querol?

Reviewed: Raymix (musician)

Created by AMM Pittsburgh (talk). Nominated by SL93 (talk) at 04:08, 12 July 2020 (UTC).[reply]

General eligibility:

New enough:
Long enough:
Other problems:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing:
Neutral:
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Other problems:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting:
Other problems:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: New enough and long enough, neutral, well cited, and well written. The inline citation provided for the hook (Ref #4) does not appear to have the relevant information about the monument. Perhaps this is due to language setting on my part, the link appears to me in Spanish and does not mention the monument. I suggest adding another source to make sure that the information for the hook is available for all browser settings. I found this one in Spanish. Did not have time to look for a source in English, but if none are readily available this should do.

About the picture, I think it may be more appropriate to use the image of the monument mentioned in the hook, which is also used in the article.

Thanks for the nomination! Alan Islas (talk) 18:07, 13 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Alan Islas: I think that I fixed all of the sourcing issues. Most of the information was already in the references, but it was just sourced to the wrong references at times. I also added the link that you provided to the article and changed the DYK image to the monument. SL93 (talk) 03:02, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks @SL93:. I also added another source and a bit of extra content. Since the sources also had versions in Spanish (besides Basque) I was able to verify them.

After reading more about the subject I'm thinking that perhaps the hook should say: "... that Bilbao philanthropist...", since she was and is so strongly connected to the city. Also, it would provide more context to the hook. But also ok as is, I leave it up to you. Good to go! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alan Islas (talk • contribs) 06:20, 14 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@SL93: Hi, I came by to promote this, but I'd like to ask: If this didn't run in an image slot, would the hook be hooky? I don't think so. Yoninah (talk) 17:32, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: I disagree. "Hooky" is based on personal opinion and your opinion alone most certainly shouldn't override mine in this case. That's not how Wikipedia works. Could you elaborate what your problem is? We have had plenty of hooks of things being named after someone else that were promoted, including recently, so this is strange. SL93 (talk) 19:05, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The nice thing about DYK is that everyone has an opinion. :)
I don't think it's hooky because it says one word about the subject and then expects me to know who the sculptor is. Meanwhile, I don't know who either of them are, and this hook doesn't enlighten me. If you think it should run anyway, fine, I'll promote it, but to a non-image spot because the thumbnail shows me more of the pool than of her bust. Yoninah (talk) 19:13, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ALT1: ... that Bilbao philanthropist Casilda Iturrizar, who helped Bilbao society using her fortune for charity, has a monument modeled after her? If that is acceptable to you, I can ping the original reviewer. SL93 (talk) 19:17, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Yoninah: SL93 (talk) 19:18, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for mentioning it, but do you know how many other people this could apply to?
If a citation could be added, and better yet, if a number figure could be found, here is another idea:
ALT2: ... that Casilda Iturrizar shared her fortune with the most disadvantaged members of Bilbao society both during her lifetime and after her death?
But even that's not the greatest hook. Yoninah (talk) 19:32, 6 August 2020 (UTC)\[reply]

@Yoninah: Technically, it is cited. The first paragraph of the Philanthropy section is literally her philanthropy. And no, I don't know how many other Bilbao philanthropists the hook would apply to. SL93 (talk) 19:38, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ALT3 ... that Bilbao philanthropist Casilda Iturrizar had a monument and a hospital wing named after, while also having a plaque memorializing her on the street where she lived? SL93 (talk) 19:42, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If that's what you want, who am I to disagree? Yoninah (talk) 19:47, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: I never said you couldn't disagree. Although I doubt that there are many philanthropists where all three of those things would apply to them, especially from Bilbao. SL93 (talk) 19:50, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging @Alan Islas: to see if they can review ALT3. SL93 (talk) 20:01, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I hadn't been watching this page, but I'm up to date with the discussion now. Being new to DYK and fairly new to Wikipedia itself, I'm still unsure with my reviews. When I first read the hook I also thought, like Yoninah, that it was not that hooky, but deemed it acceptable, especially since the artist is notable enough to have his own WP article. Also, I have to agree with SL93 in that similar hooks appear to be promoted. But I'm glad there is a chance to improve it, even though is obviously not that easy.

My initial alternative idea was something like "... that the Bilbao philanthropist Casilda Iturrizar started out in the domestic staff of her future husband, Tomás de Epalza, who was already married at the time?" but dismissed it as probably too much of a "tabloid" style hook maybe.

ALT3 is already better, so I would go with that, but just noting the park and the whole street are named after her, so it's not just the plaque and the monument. How about going further with the theme of things named after her, like this:

ALT3.1 "... that Bilbao philanthropist Casilda Iturrizar had a park, a hospital wing, and the street where she lived named after her?". Well, the street is called "Viuda de Epalza" (widow of Epalza) but also refers to her of course.

Last thing, sorry for the long post, I saw that the Spanish article has a closer view of the monument. Alan Islas (talk) 23:29, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would be fine with ALT3.1 or an image slot with the the other image. SL93 (talk) 23:32, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I mentioned that many hooks go through about things that are named after other things. Well, Template:Did you know nominations/Teshio River is in prep now with no issues thus far. Despite the added fact that most places in Hokkaido are named for the Ainu language. SL93 (talk) 00:29, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

To be clear, one of the reasons I nominated this for DYK was because of such hooks always going through without any issues. SL93 (talk) 18:33, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Monument of Casilda Iturrizar

ALT4 "... that Casilda Iturrizar (pictured) rose from working-class roots to become one of the most admired philanthropists of Bilbao, where she is remembered with parks, hospitals and monuments bearing her name?

Maybe not that different, but she wasn't always wealthy. — Maile (talk) 19:36, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I really like ALT4 hook by Maile! It tells a little story in itself and is true to the sources. Not a biggie, but I think it could be streets instead of monuments, both streets and monuments, or just the way it is. In the end I believe this long discussion it's actually resulting in an improved hook, which is a net gain. Alan Islas (talk) 22:22, 7 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Withdraw SL93 (talk) 19:11, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@SL93, Yoninah, and Maile66: I'm closing this as withdrawn per the nominator's request, but I'm going to go on the record and say that I would have had no issue running ALT2, ALT3, or ALT4; all are plenty interesting, and this is an example of letting the great be the enemy of the good. SL93, if you want to un-withdraw, let me know and I'll expedite processing this hook. The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 21:15, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]