Talk:Carole Crist

Inappropriate article for WP; numerous violations deleted

The notability of Carole Rome is questionable. The real motivation for creating this article was that she is the fiancee of a major politican, a governor, and to spread rumors about the governor's sexuality (there are ongoing attempts in several articles to do this). For this reason, I have placed the Coatrack tag. Publishing rumors about someone's marriage is typically inconsistent with the privacy goals of the policy, WP:BLP. The policy on "reliable sources", WP:RS does not license "mongering a rumor" just because the rumor is publicized in a RS. In addition, by WP:RS, self published things like Huffington Post are not reliable sources to begin with. Previous versions of this article had excessive detail, which rendered the tone of the overall article less encyclopedic. Hurmata (talk) 04:27, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Article totally appropriate; you have a bias problem Hurmata

Thank you Hurmata for your clarivoyant declaration of my intentions in creating this article. If you note the page history, I was the only author of this article until August 19th, and at that time there were only factual listing of her life events with footnotes to document this. Without doing a detailed history of the whole article, I think that it was one person who added the references to Chuck Todd (which you are justified in removing as it was a spurious comment in passing). The fact that you question her notability, however, is absurd. Her husband was on the short list for Vice President, which could have made her the Second Lady of the U.S. On WP there are bios for Jill Biden, Todd Palen, most spouses of Governors and all the former second ladies and many more that almost were. If you put "Carole Rome" into Google you currently get 18,000+ hits, and they are all this women. "Coatracking" is WP is defined as bias, which is what you are guilty of, when you try and destroy a legitimate bio of a newsworthy person. Kryzadmz (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 22:01, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Should we delete this article?

Now that Crist is not going to be V-P nominee, do we need this article, as Carole Rome is not very noteworthy in her own right? Should we get rid of this article now, or wait till the engagement is called off? RomanSpa (talk) 11:44, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

deletion of info on her first marriage to Todd Rome

it is highly suspect why anyone would want to scrub info i included previously on the subjects marriage to Todd Rome, who also happens to be the father of her two daughters.

Reference to the daughters has also been scrubbed.--4rousseau (talk) 02:09, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

appearance on Real Housewives of New York City

details related to the subject's appearance on Real Housewives of New York City and her friendship with the various cast members has also been deleted without an appropriate reason, is someone scrubbing this article?--4rousseau (talk) 02:10, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

deletion of controversial trade trip, subject participated in the trip and trade talks

details on a very expensive trade trip to Europe involve not only the governor but also his fiance who accompanied him on the trip and participated in the talks. For some reason, details of the trip and all source material I included have been edited out of the article. scrubbing?--4rousseau (talk) 02:29, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Don't know what other editors might mean by "scrubbing", and divergent interpretations could be crucial indeed in a charged discussion. But, as I would interpret that word — mind you everybody, a word I didn't use myself — "scrubbing" is exactly what I did. Scrubbed content that might be chicanery. Now, because it's so goshdarned near impossible to get an article in WP deleted, we still have this article about a woman who's a millionaire business owner (nonnotable) and is the first lady of a US state (also nonnotable). This article was created in the heat of the 2008 presidential election season to amplify claims about the governor of Florida whose inclusion in his own WP:BLP was of dubious validity. The reason for creating this article here was to amplify those claims by repeating them in a separate article. Everything I have scrubbed is objectionable either because it is padding, to justify the existence of this article (in this category, "she has children by a previous marriage and their father is . . . .") and/or it is improper. The inclusion of sensational charge that the governor's wife is "involved" in possible illicit use of public funds by virtue of having been in an entourage is improper on its own. The business executives in the entourage of the trade mission, being private citizens, WOULD BEAR NO RESPONSIBILITY for the misuse of public funds, if there indeed was a misuse of public funds. Additionally, the motivation for such an inclusion of improper content is to AMPLIFY a criticism of her husband, a governor. This criticism might well be justified for inclusion in his Wikipedia entry; indeed, I didn't see fit to delete that material from there. Even if the motives of other editors are good, what I have done here, what I have done here, is to delete content I sincerely and thoughtfully believed is dirty and/or trivial. Hurmata (talk) 08:17, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Request for expansion of article, yet many facts are purged routinely by Hurmata

I am requesting that a decision be made on previous contributions that were fact based and purged. Also, Hurmata has requested that the article be deleted - is there a decision on that? If WP is going to encourage expansion on the article " Please help improve this article or section by expanding it. Further information might be found on the talk page. (May 2009)" then it is important for WP to defend fact based contributions that are purged routinely by Hurmata. I believe as other editors have noted on this article and on the Charlie Crist article-- Hurmata does indeed have a bias problem.--4rousseau (talk) 22:29, 12 May 2009 (UTC) (pasted from the Charlie Crist discussion page) Removal of facts from article on Carole Rome Crist b/c those facts are also presented on Charlie Crist article

"Hurmata" removed several factual contributions to the Carole Crist article - the main reason stated is because some of the facts are already posted here. I would request Horologium to review the Carole Crist history and determine what sections should remain and also to address the request from Hurmata for deletion of the Carole Crist page etc. I think we need to deal with this now rather than ongoing as items come up related to the senatorial campaign. --4rousseau (talk) 22:24, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not going to get involved in editing Carole Crist, but reading through Hurmata's edits and the discussion on the talk page, the only things he removed that are relevant to this article are the trip expenses and fundraising thing, which are mentioned in this article already. Adding them to her article is a bit coatracky. The rest of his removals are gossip, poorly sourced and tangentially notable trivia, or information about her ex-husband's remarriage, which is utterly irrelevant. There's not a lot of notability asserted in the article (first spouses are not inherently notable; more than half of the people at List of current United States first spouses are either redlinks or redirects to their spouses, and there are a number more that should join them (Lou Rell, Lori Easley, Mariclare Culver, Marsha Barbour, Barbara Richardson, Mikey L. Hoeven, and Jenny Sanford). I'm not going to redirect it or nominate it for AfD, but it's certainly a valid candidate, and if it were to be nominated, I'd !vote to delete. BLPs of individuals who are not inherently notable (or notable only by proxy) are tricky things, and easy to make into coatracks, even when that is not the intent. Horologium (talk) 11:16, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

i am pasting the above to carole crist's discussion page as well -along with this reply-since you agree with Hurmata that the Carole Crist article should be a candidate for AfD-- yet no one has placed that flag on the article. Some of what Hurmata removed related to the private corporate jet industry- Todd Rome, Carole's ex runs Blue Star Jet, Carole sat in at the table at meetings with Crist and aviation industry experts on the European trade trip, ---all of this was purged by Hurmata. Is this just coatracky info? I don't think so.

Crist had knee surgery in June 2008 - he recuperated at Jill Zarin's home in the Hamptons - Jill Zarin and the Housewives of New York City (along with the entire franchise) are WP articles that are routinely visited and edited --and this information was also removed. The New York Housewives pages are part of WP- Crist spent his recuperation at Jill Zarin's home and then shortly thereafter proposed to his Carole, whose home "Chateau Rome" appeared in the show and she is good friends with Zarin.

The framework/infrastructure for creating pages for each new first lady of each state is something WP allowed to be created and to take up that bandwidth. I find it interesting that it is discussed as a possible AfD- since all the little nifty boxes showing incumbent predecessor etc are listed on those pages just as they are for the Governors. It would be odd not to have info that is posted on both Michelle Obama's page as well as Barack Obama's page or Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton, or Laura Bush and George W. Bush. Yet, here that practice is treated as a redundancy if any linkage is implied, odd.

My hope is that this article does not become Palinized-- i.e. what happened to Sarah Palin's page when she was announced as McCain's running mate. --4rousseau (talk) 14:31, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The problem with the Real Housewives item is the source (which appears to be broken, BTW)—it's a photo blog of totally unknown reliability. There doesn't appear to be any text accompanying the photos (in other sets which are still available), so there is no way of verifying that she "is a friend of the cast of the show". Find a real source, and then it can be restored. The information about her meeting her ex-husband's new wife is totally non-notable, and was rightly excised. The information about her going on the trip is not about her (as almost all spouses accompany their husbands or wives on trips), it's about the governor, and appears in his article. There's absolutely nothing in the article that indicates that there was anything inappropriate about her sitting in on the meeting, and attempting to tie her ex-husband's business interests is synthesis, a Wikipedia no-no. (For that matter, the Real Housewives stuff that Hurmata nuked was also synthesis. You can't join together information from multiple sources to make it say something that none of the sources state.)

There are a number of political spouses who have careers sufficient to support articles on their own merits—Todd Palin (a champion snowmobiler), Maria Shriver (a journalist and author), and Marjorie Rendell (a federal judge)—and a couple others who might be notable (Dawn Gibbons and Catherine Curran O'Malley). The existence of the list should not indicate that all of the members of the list are notable enough for articles of their own; that's one of the reasons why lists exist.

I don't want this article to become Palinized either; I have been watching that trainwreck and fully agree that we don't need more of the same here, but I suspect that it will happen eventually, as high-profile politicians become battlegrounds between groups with ideological axes to grind. This article should not be as much of a battleground as Charlie Crist, but because it's not as high-profile, inappropriate edits might remain here for longer periods, which is a very bad thing. Horologium (talk) 18:19, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

"There's absolutely nothing in the article that indicates that there was anything inappropriate about her sitting in on the meeting," -- and no opinion was given about it being inappropriate- merely stating the fact that she was at the table at the meeting- it is a fact. Yet it was deleted...

"and attempting to tie her ex-husband's business interests is synthesis, a Wikipedia no-no." -- didn't tie her husband's business to the fact of the meeting, I stated it simply as a background for her possibly expertise for attending the meeting-- if you look at the history you will see that the two are not synthesized. I realize it may be difficult to see the revisions in the history but that is the case.

Hurmata even wanted to remove the ex husband Todd Rome and the two children entirely from the Carole Rome article-- --4rousseau (talk) 18:53, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

and here are the links if anyone cares to see re:friendship between Real Housewives Zarin and Carole Rome Crist --

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2009/03/lost-footage-of-floridas-first-lady-on-real-housewives.html --4rousseau (talk) 19:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

and

http://jillzarin.com/jills-blog/summer-update-from-the-hamptons/ --4rousseau (talk) 19:09, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The first link (newspaper blog) is a reliable source; the second, a personal blog, clearly is not, according to WP:RS. I suggest you stop mentioning it. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 20:36, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Relationship with Daughters

I'm a bit confused about the mention of her relationship with her daughters, and specifically the phrase "she remains active in their lives." Why is this included in the article? The citation leads to a blog that focuses on allegations she had not spoken to them in two years... Editing this content. Macboots (talk) 12:05, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

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Edits on behalf of subject

The subject of this article has contacted me requesting minor edits. I will make them as transparently as possible. I have legitimate sources for everything except her current place of residence of Fisher Island. She recently moved back there after a much publicized move to NYC. Ichormosquito (talk) 15:27, 12 December 2019 (UTC)