Talk:Carl L. Thunberg

Notability

I've edited this WP:BLP article for tone, WP:TONE, removing promotional claims, WP:ADV, puffery, and a mass of references to small publications of his own, WP:RS, which obviously can't be used to establish notability WP:N. There is no evidence that he is a known archaeologist cited by other archaeologists, or indeed a known historian cited by other historians. What is left is thin indeed. He seems to hold a minor political appointment, chairman of the board of a remote rural county museum. This does not sound like notability at all. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:12, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

The apparently promotional editing has been continued by User:StenssonSK. This is starting to look very much like paid editing, but in any case this is certainly a WP:BLP (Biography of a Living Person) article, and all editors are required to ensure that editing is strictly neutral in tone and content as required by WP:NPOV. Thunberg does not appear to have conducted any major archaeological research, nor written any major historical work, nor held down any major employment in those areas. This does not qualify him or any editor to assert he is a known historian or archaeologist. Chairing a rural museum does not promote him to being a professional historian or a professional archaeologist. There is no reliable and independent evidence from multiple sources per WP:RS that Thunberg is notable as demanded by WP:N or WP:PROF; I have accordingly tagged the article for both conflict of interest and notability issues.

It should not be necessary to add that the tags must not be removed until consensus has been reached that the issues are fully resolved; removing tags prematurely is WP:DISRUPTIVE editing. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:13, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

I’ve worked professionally in Swedish archaeology for over 30 years. I had never heard of Thunberg before I discovered the Wikipedia article. He has no publications in VITALIS, the main bibliographical database for Swedish archaeology. As for being a historian or a popular historian, he has self-published a number of books on the very early written history of Sweden, including runestones. A few of these books appear to have originated as his university term papers. I believe that Thunberg's main professional link to archaeology and history is in his capacity as politically appointed chairman of a county museum. Martin Rundkvist (talk) 08:50, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Dear Chiswick Chap, Mr. Alexander,

I am a little shocked at your harsh tone on this matter. I have only tried to be helpful. 1. There are many who appreciate Thunberg and his writings. Appears not least in discussions on this page: https://skandinavisktarkeologiforum.org/ 2. The references I provided in the Wikipedia article are various scholarly works that have cited him. Works that de facto used his works. Very easy to control. 3. That he has conducted many talks and tours of antiquities is a fact that can be seen from newspapers as well as material from the National Antiquities Office. 4. That he is chairman of the County Museum is a fact. Västernorrland County Museum is not fair to call a "rural museum", but is one of Sweden's 24 county museums, which is also an authority. It seems strange that a person like Thunberg could not be considered encyclopedically relevant, when the smallest detail in Star Wars and The Lord of the Rings and the like have their own articles. But anyway – I definitely don't want to cause any problems and worries. Especially not for him. I wish you a nice weekend, StenssonSK (talk) 09:02, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

I don't wish to be harsh, but was concerned about the repeated reinsertion of material which seemed to favour Thunberg and to assert his notability. I am happy to hear that this sounds very much like an innocent purpose on your part. "Encyclopedic relevance" on Wikipedia is decided by the "Notability" rules, which are basically that attention has been given to a topic by multiple, reliable, independent sources. Huge attention has of course been given to many popular topics in science fiction and fantasy by newspapers and academic journals alike; the same does not appear to be the case for Thunberg. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:21, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

"Huge attention has of course been given to many popular topics in science fiction and fantasy by newspapers and academic journals alike; the same does not appear to be the case for Thunberg" - As is the situation for almost anybody in such comparance... :) (Love your articles and work on Wikipedia by the way.) StenssonSK (talk) 18:16, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

I agree with StenssonSK, and think that Thunberg is an enough established historian for an article. I am myself a reader of his books, articles and papers, who really appreciate those.

I have examined the sources you have rejected, and they consist of mainly scientific works that all cite Thunberg's works. I have thereby checked the following titles from the article's edit history:

Wolf, Kirsten; Mueller-Wollmer, Tristan (2018). The Vikings: Facts and Fictions. Santa Barbara, CA: ABC-CLIO. pp. 17–22. ISBN 978-1-4408-6298-4.

Beronius Jörpeland, Lena; Göthberg, Hans; Seiler, Anton; Wikborg, Jonas (eds.) (2017). at Upsalum – människor och landskapande. Utbyggnad av Oskustbanan genom Gamla Uppsala. Arkeologerna Statens historiska museer, Upplandsmuseet och Societas Archaeologica Upsaliensis. pp. 394–395. ISBN 978-91-983901-3-1.

Manea, Irina-Maria (2016). Valhalla Rising: The Construction of Cultural Identity through Norse Myth in Scandinavian and German Pagan Metal. PhD Thesis. University of Bucharest, Faculty of History. p. 178.

Pedersen, Anne & Sindbæk, Søren M. (eds.). 2020. Viking Encounters: Proceedings of the Eighteenth Viking Congress. Foreword by Her Majesty the Queen of Denmark, Patron of the Eighteenth Viking Congress, Denmark, August 6–12, 2017. Aarhus University Press. International distributors: Oxbow Books Ltd. pp. 275-277. ISBN 978 87 7184 265 4

Zachrisson, Torun (2020). ”Sigtuna: An Urban Hub in the Viking World, and its Roots”. In: Anne Pedersen, A. & Sindbaek, S. M. (eds.), 2020, Viking Encounters: Proceedings of the Eighteenth Viking Congress. Aarhus University Press. International distributors: Oxbow Books Ltd. pp. 275-277. ISBN 978 87 7184 265 4

Sorgenfrei, Simon (2018). Islam i Sverige de första 1300 åren. Bromma: Myndigheten för stöd till trossamfund (SST). p. 298. ISBN 978-91-983453-2-2, 91-983453-2-X.

Laust Krambs, Karsten (2017). 'Danegæld' part 1 - mønternes diversification perioden 979-1016, (The diversification of the coins in the period 979-1016). p. 6.

Laust Krambs, Karsten (2017). 'Danegæld' part 2 - historiske runesten fra perioden 900-1025, (Historical runestones from the period 900-1025). p. 5.Retrieved 1 March 2021.

Lindström, Håkan L. (2019). ”Berättelserna om Erik Segersäll och hans äktenskapskarriär”. In: Föreningen för Västgötalitteratur, Meddelande, 2019/1. pp. 9-10. Skara: Föreningen för Västgötalitteratur.

Rosborn, Sven (2021). The Viking King’s Golden Treasure. Malmö: Tomas Sielski. p. 360. ISBN 978-91-986780-0-0.

Saenko, Alexandr (2021). ”The battle of Fyrisvellir as dualistic ’Cornerstone’ of Swedish and Danish historiography”. In: Humanities and Law Studies Scientific Bulletin, 1, 2021. Federal State Autonomous Educational Institution for Higher Education, Moscow, pp. 67-72.

In my opinion, it is clear, normal and in order that he has an article.

Best regards, LeeHelen96 (talk) 07:19, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

𝑮𝒐𝒐𝒅 𝒆𝒗𝒆𝒏𝒊𝒏𝒈,

I very much agree that it is relevant that Thunberg has an article. He is possibly somewhat "underground" as a historian, but is without a doubt very influential among historians and archaeologists active in the subject areas in which he has researched. Attached are some links:

https://www.google.com/search?hl=sv&tbo=p&tbm=bks&q=Slaget+p%C3%A5+Fyrisvallarna+i+ny+tolkning -

https://www.google.com/search?q=carl+L.+Thunberg+the+vikings&hl=sv&tbm=bks&ei=i_yeZPXYH6Oqxc8PyZm-iAg&ved=0ahUKEwi1yp-Ir-v_AhUjVfEDHcmMD4EQ4dUDCAg&uact=5&oq=carl+L.+Thunberg+the+vikings%20vikings&gs_lcp=Cg1nd3Mtd2l6LWJvb2tzEAM6BAghEApQhwNY1CBgwCNoAHAAeACAAZoBiAGDB5IBBDEyLjGYAQCgAQHAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz-books

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https://www.google.se/books/edition/Vikingakungens_guldskatt/twwzEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Slaget+p%C3%A5+Fyrisvallarna+i+ny+tolkning&pg=PA360&printsec=frontcover

All the best, JanPJ (talk) 16:24, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Of course Carl L Thunberg is needed as a Wikipedia article. Undoubtedly one of the foremost in the subject areas he writes about. Sinclair68 (talk) 07:47, 15 July 2023 (UTC)