Talk:Car/Archive 8

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Archive 8

Archive 9

Peak production of ICE cars in 2017/18?

• Removed peak fossil fuel claim from lead: I removed this recently added claim from the lead. [[1]]. First, it is not clear that 2017 was a peak. For example, here is another article citing experts who suggested 2018 might be a peak [[2]] and then only because they predict a reduction in total automobile sales in 2019. Second, the Cleantecnica source certainly didn't seem very reliable. Cleantecnica is a promotional/news site. Like InsideEV it's a site that pushes a pro-EV narrative and is sympathetic to pro-EV news. That doesn't automatically discount them as a RS but means we should at least look into things a bit more. CT cites "Carbon Tracker". So is "Carbon Tracker" reliable? Also, I don't actually see where in the article it claims 2017 was a peak. Springee (talk) 03:24, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Firstly thanks for explaining your undo clearly and politely. I have cited "Carbon Tracker" in some other articles and I believe they are reliable. I don't have a subscription to the FT but I suspect the Futurism article you mention, having been published on the last day of 2018, did not have complete 2018 production stats. The estimate by Dr. Maximilian Holland seems to be based on combining China figures from China Daily, US figures from Marklines and Europe figures from European Automobile Manufacturers Association to make an overall total covering most of world sales: and then subtracting EV figures from EV volumes. I don't know anything about any of those sources and he has not included figures from smaller markets but estimates they will not affect the result - presumably they are not available yet. He does not claim to be certain but says "The figures we’ve discussed above support the idea of 2017 being the peak year." Perhaps we need to wait for the motor industry to publish a 2018 world total and then subtract the figures from EV volumes before saying for certain? Meanwhile I have cited a source which does not seem to be biased towards EVs. Chidgk1 (talk) 14:14, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

I think we still would have some issues. If we generate the numbers there is a WP:SYN and WP:WEIGHT risk. Synthesis since we shouldn't be looking at the numbers ourselves and claiming a peak in production, especially if we don't actually know why the numbers are what they are. There is also a question of weight. Is the claim of "peak ICE" something that is widely covered or only a claim made by a select few? Given the very broad scope of this article we shouldn't put too much weight into something that has yet to be shown to be true. This is especially true when putting material in the lead vs the body. Per WP:LEAD we shouldn't introduce material into the lead if it isn't discussed in the body of the article. For this reason we generally don't have or need citations in the lead. I haven't seen sufficient weight to justify inclusion of the claim at all but perhaps we don't need much to include the claim in the body. In the lead we should show that this is something that is being discussed widely. Springee (talk) 16:38, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

OK have just edited body of article for now until peak year is certain Chidgk1 (talk) 07:01, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

You can't tell that a peak has occurred until after it has definitely passed. If we could tell when the peak is then we could make a fortune on the stock market. Still too early to make a definitive statement. All we can say is that some people say the peak has been reached. See WP:CRYSTALBALL.  Stepho  talk  10:19, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

• I just reverted a change stating that peak ICE engine production had occurred. There are several issues with the sourcing and the claim. First, as edited the text seems to suggest the peak was due to a change in preference shifting to EVs vs just cyclic demand. Using similar logic in 2009 we might have said that ICE cars sales peaked in 2008. Until this is clearly a trend we shouldn't report it as if this is the all time peak. Second, I would suggest we use more reliable sources. Cleantecnica is as much a promotion site as a news site. Carsalesbase is unknown in terms of RS. I would suggest we find reliable automotive news sources (not EV fan sites nor sites with unknown editorial standards) to establish weight for inclusion as well as the conclusion. Springee (talk) 20:30, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

• Given the scale of EV production nowadays compared with any peak in overall car sales in 2008 and the difference that China is now the largest car market and heavily supports EVs, I cannot see any reasonable scenario whereby global fossil fuel car sales could exceed their 2017 level in future. However I am not an industry expert or economist so if anyone thinks otherwise I would be interested to hear the details. Chidgk1 (talk) 17:51, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Again, CRYSTAL. We have reliable sources quoting experts who speculate we have hit a peak. We don't have sufficient historical knowledge to be sure a peak has occurred. A small, single year drop really isn't sufficient to prove the case. Also, the sources used were a personal blog and a advocate/news site vs a neutral, reliable source. I would suggest getting more consensus here via proposed changes and proposed sources. I would support the "experts suggesting" type material. Springee (talk) 18:06, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

• Oh I see so it is not just that you think another peak might occur you still doubt a peak occurred in 2017. In that case let's wait until completely indisputable 2018 car production figures are issued. You presumably know better than me what are the most trustworthy figures and when and by whom they will be released.

Chidgk1 (talk) 18:16, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Not exactly. First, we do need to wait until we have RS's that talk about the peak occurring. Second we should keep it speculative/forward looking until we see this is clearly a down hill slope for ICE cars vs just a single year dip. Also, if RS's talk about the associated mandates/incentives etc that have accompanied EVs we should mention that as well. Finally, other editors have expressed concern as well. Get their opinions too. Springee (talk) 18:23, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm with Springee on this. We're not saying that it definitely won't shift to EV dominating. We're saying that we don't know if it has happened yet and are not even sure if it will happen. Perhaps next year a new oil field might be found - making oil cheap. Perhaps lithium supply prices will skyrocket - making EV more expensive. Perhaps China will take a closed foreign policy again. Perhaps WWIII will break out. Perhaps hydrogen will take off. Perhaps we will all stay home and telecommute. Perhaps EV are a fad for a few years and then die out. Perhaps battery manufacturing poisons the planet more than burning oil does. You don't know. Ask any stock market analyst. Predicting a peak while it is happening (to maximise your share price for selling) is so incredibly hard that nobody consistently does it multiple times. Therefore we cannot say that the peak has occurred. We can only say that certain authors have said it has occurred. Facts, not guesses.  Stepho  talk  23:56, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

• According to the BBC International Organization of Motor Vehicle Manufacturers is a reliable source of production statistics. I have not browsed their site yet but hopefully we can at least agree on that. Chidgk1 (talk) 13:19, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

OICA is definitely a reliable source of statistics of past data. Notice that they don't provide predictions. Saying the peak has passed is also effectively predicting that the next 10 years or so will be less than this year. If this was 2030 looking back at 10+ years of EV's outselling fossil fuel cars then I would have a high confidence in saying the peak of fossil fuels has passed. But not after 1-3 years (depending on which source you agree with).  Stepho  talk  13:59, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

• Glad we agree about the totals from OICA. As far as I know the 2018 production stats at EV Volumes are the most reliable for EVs, although they do not separate cars and other light vehicles. But it would also be useful to have the best sources for production numbers by fuel type for fuels intermediate in number between gasoline and electricity, for example presumably diesel, if anyone knows what that source is. Chidgk1 (talk) 15:11, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 September 2019

108.50.170.34 (talk) 22:15, 3 September 2019 (UTC) There are around 1.5 billion cars in use worldwide.

Lots of cars in the real world has no bearing on this article needing protection.  Stepho  talk  22:32, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps they're saying our data of 1 billion cars world wide is out of date, which is true. The source is from 2011. On Vehicle and Motorcycle similar outdated data is used. In those cases, the numbers of vehicle types is used for comparison, so it works because the data for each type of vehicle is from the same approximate year. But if we had the sources it would be welcome to update all such data. Until then, it's fine for it to remain, as long as the reader is aware what year the estimate was made. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 01:36, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Good point.  Stepho  talk  10:04, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 November 2019

I am requesting to make changes to the autonomous car section of this wikipedia page. I would like to add material that includes hardware of self-driving technology, and companies like Tesla that have revolutionized self driving tech. I have included sources I will be using.

Sigfusson, L. (2018). Autonomous Cars. Discover, 39(6), 66-67.

Kemeny, R. (2019). Autonomous cars learn from terrible driving. New Scientist, 241(3215), 16-16. https://doi.org/10.1016/S0262-4079(19)30186-1

Bradley, R. (2016). Tesla Autopilot. MIT Technology Review, 119(2), 62-65.

Thanks, Shyen2 (talk) 01:38, 21 November 2019 (UTC) Shyen Shah

 Not done. It's not clear what changes you want to make. Please make a precise request. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 02:23, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

This is a summary article that covers a lot of different aspects of cars. If we added too much detail of any one aspect then we would drown in clutter. That information woudl be better added to Autonomous car, which we already point to.  Stepho  talk  10:13, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 February 2020

"Electric cars, which were invented early in the history of the car..."?

What type of sentence is that? Maybe specify a date? Very vague. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:6000:1706:a00f:f48c:c9cf:f3:9f (talk) 18:42, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

 Not done. It's not clear what changes you want to make. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 18:57, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

nice

this is fantastic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C8:1886:E200:7C3B:B14C:348E:E46D (talk) 14:17, 30 April 2020 (UTC)

Didn't Siegfried Marcus invent the car not Karl Benz?

Seriously, why has this been an error on this page for so long? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siegfried_Marcus KseiHistoryFreak (talk) 19:24, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Have you read the History section? Seriously? Ian Dalziel (talk) 19:37, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 August 2020

using electric cars reduces global warming. 115.98.253.238 (talk) 09:46, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Already added to the intro last month. – Thjarkur (talk) 09:54, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Lead image

Mercedes C Class

Gridlock [sic] See gridlock. This is not and cannot be actual gridlock, and it's unclear if this freeway is even particularly congested in this image

File:Münster, Beresa, Mercedes-Benz C-Klasse Cabrio -- 2018 -- 1768.jpg is not really an improvement over File:401 Gridlock.jpg. The topic itself is impossible to represent with a single image. There are so many kinds of cars, and Wikipedia isn't just about last week. We care just as much about cars from 100 years ago as now, and we care just as much about cars around the world as in a rich country, and not just about $60k cars in the rich west. You can't stuff all that in one image. What you can do is convey the general idea: there are many kinds of cars. You can communicate that, tell readers to expect all sorts of different kinds of cars, without having the burden to literally catalog ever possible kind of car in one picture. The traffic picture at least shows us good views five or six kinds of cars, so there's at least hope that the viewer's takeaway will be "there are a bunch of different cars out there." The many many cars in the distance that you can't quite make out even hints that the fact there's a lot more of them than what you're looking at. That's useful.

Context, the car in its natural environment, is also a goal of a a lead image. Context, how a topic relates to the world, is very close to the definition of "encyclopedic". That's why Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary emphasizes that we aren't merely trying to tell readers what a word means, but to tell them things about the word. Wikipedia:Plot-only description of fictional works similarly emphasizes that we don't merely want to tell people what the content of a work is. We're far more interested in the surrounding context, the influence and impact the work had, what people said about it. The edit summary "the article is about the car itself, not traffic" is misleading in that respect. Traffic is one of the things about cars we should know. We aren't merely telling readers what a car is. That would make Wikipedia primarily a dictionary. We tell readers what something is to define the topic, but from there we strive for far more.

So a picture that says "this is a car" is minimally sufficient, but what we really want is far more. If we wanted to improve on File:401 Gridlock.jpg, we should be looking for examples of more than one car, and show them in a normal context. Not idealized image, a spotless, polished, expensive car in a eerily empty lot, more like a fantasy you'd see in an advertisement for the car than everyday reality.

No an image will be all that close to perfect, and I don't think we should ever be satisfied with such a broad topic, but we can take steps int he right direction. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 22:57, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

I strongly agree with some of your points and strongly disagree with some other points.

It's true that there are many types of cars and a single picture will not be able to represent everything from a Ford Model T to a VW Beetle to Tesla Model S or from an econobox to an SUV to a taxi to a supercar. The gridlock picture shows lots of cars but all from the back, with little discernable detail. The emphasis is on traffic conditions rather than the vehicles.

I would prefer an image with only 2 (maybe 3) vehicles that show a spectrum. Eg a Model T vs a modern car (perhaps more appropriate at History of the automobile), or an econobox against an SUV. More than a few vehicles dilutes it, making none of the vehicles relevant. Failing that, practically anything with 4 wheels and smaller than a US pickup truck will fit the bill. The article will have plenty of other images, so there is no need to get too fussy about the lead image needing to represent the entire range of vehicles available across the world.  Stepho  talk  23:44, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I meant to say only seeing the cars from behind was a major flaw but I forgot. Thanks for bringing that up. Normal roads have a convenient feature where half the cars are going the opposite direction, so it's funny picked one of the few where the other side of the highway is also only the backs of the vehicles. Interchanges like cloverleafs offer the possibility of seeing several kinds of cars from several different perspectives. We should be able to do a lot better.

I'd like to see a number of new images tried out for a time to gauge reactions, hopefully get something better. Even if we find one we're pretty happy with, it would be normal to replace it once or twice a year, rather than hope to have anything with unanimous support. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 00:03, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

I prefer the previous image. While not ideal it shows many cars and shows them in their "natural habitat". Perhaps another picture of cars in traffic would be better but this is not an improvement. Springee (talk) 00:55, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

I suggest that someone put together a collage of various cars similar to the lead image of the cat article. An example would be having a Toyota Corolla (most popular car), a Ford Model T (an older iconic car), a Volkswagen Beetle (another iconic car filling the gap between the Corolla and Model T), and some other notable cars of different shapes and sizes, such as the Jeep Wrangler, Ford F-150, and BMC Mini. Maybe even perhaps a Volkswagen Bus (representing vans) and any kind of sports car like a Ford Mustang or Ferrari. WaddlesJP13 (talk) 20:14, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

One of the problems with collages is you lose scale and context. It's understandable why they appear on so many articles, and collages are less bad than some alternatives, since they do at least let us include a checklist of representative cars. So it serves the dictionary purpose of answering the basic question "what is a car?", but it lacks the encyclopedic value of saying anything about cars: Where do cars fit in the world? What do cars do? Why do cars exist? If someone can put together a collage with a minimum of fuss and debate over what to include, that's a short term solution. But for the long term effort would be better spent looking for more encyclopedic images. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:10, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 March 2021

Extended content

A car (or automobile) is a wheeled motor vehicle used for transportation. Most definitions of cars say that they run primarily on roads, seat one to eight people, have four wheels, and mainly transport people rather than goods.[2][3] Cars came into global use during the 20th century, and developed economies depend on them. The year 1886 is regarded as the birth year of the modern car when German inventor Karl Benz patented his Benz Patent-Motorwagen. Cars became widely available in the early 20th century. One of the first cars accessible to the masses was the 1908 Model T, an American car manufactured by the Ford Motor Company. Cars were rapidly adopted in the US, where they replaced animal-drawn carriages and carts, but took much longer to be accepted in Western Europe and other parts of the world.[citation needed] Cars have controls for driving, parking, passenger comfort, and a variety of lights. Over the decades, additional features and controls have been added to vehicles, making them progressively more complex, but also more reliable and easier to operate.[citation needed] These include rear-reversing cameras, air conditioning, navigation systems, and in-car entertainment. Most cars in use in the 2010s are propelled by an internal combustion engine, fueled by the combustion of fossil fuels. Electric cars, which were invented early in the history of the car, became commercially available in the 2000s and are predicted to cost less to buy than gasoline cars before 2025.[4][5] The transition from fossil fuels to electric cars features prominently in most climate change mitigation scenarios,[6] such as Project Drawdown's 100 actionable solutions for climate change.[7] There are costs and benefits to car use. The costs to the individual include acquiring the vehicle, interest payments (if the car is financed), repairs and maintenance, fuel, depreciation, driving time, parking fees, taxes, and insurance.[8] The costs to society include maintaining roads, land use, road congestion, air pollution, public health, healthcare, and disposing of the vehicle at the end of its life. Traffic collisions are the largest cause of injury-related deaths worldwide.[9] The personal benefits include on-demand transportation, mobility, independence, and convenience.[10] The societal benefits include economic benefits, such as job and wealth creation from the automotive industry, transportation provision, societal well-being from leisure and travel opportunities, and revenue generation from the taxes. People's ability to move flexibly from place to place has far-reaching implications for the nature of societies.[11] There are around 1 billion cars in use worldwide. The numbers are increasing rapidly, especially in China, India, and other newly industrialized countries.[12] Contents 1Etymology 2History 3Mass production 4Fuel and propulsion technologies 5User interface 6Lighting 7Weight 8Seating and body style 9Safety 10Costs and benefits 11Environmental impact 12Emerging car technologies 12.1Autonomous car 12.2Open source development 12.3Car sharing 13Industry 14Alternatives 15Other meanings 16See also 17References 18Further reading 19External links Etymology The English word car is believed to originate from Latin carrus/Carrum "wheeled vehicle" or (via Old North French) Middle English carre "two-wheeled cart," both of which in turn derives from Gaulish Karros "chariot."[13][14] It originally referred to any wheeled horse-drawn vehicle, such as a cart, carriage, or wagon.[15][16] "Motor car," attested from 1895, is the usual formal term in British English.[3] "Autocar," a variant likewise attested from 1895 and meaning "self-propelled car," is now considered archaic.[17] "Horseless carriage" is attested from 1895.[18] "Automobile," a classical compound derived from Ancient Greek autós (αὐτός) "self" and Latin mobilis "movable," entered English from French and was first adopted by the Automobile Club of Great Britain in 1897.[19] It fell out of favor in Britain and is now used chiefly in North America,[20] where the abbreviated form "auto" commonly appears as an adjective in compound formations like "auto industry" and "auto mechanic".[21][22] Both forms are still used in everyday Dutch (auto/automobiel) and German (Auto/Automobil).[citation needed] History Main article: History of the automobile Steam Machine Of Verbiest, In 1678. (Ferdinand Verbiest) The first working steam-powered vehicle was designed—and quite possibly built—by Ferdinand Verbiest, a Flemish member of a Jesuit mission in China around 1672. It was a 65-centimeter (26 in)-long scale-model toy for the Kangxi Emperor that was unable to carry a driver or a passenger.[10][23][24] It is not known with certainty if Verbiest's model was successfully built or run.[24] Cugnot's 1771 fardier à vapeur, as preserved at the Musée des Arts et Métiers, Paris, France Nicolas-Joseph Cugnot is widely credited with building the first full-scale, self-propelled mechanical vehicle or car in about 1769; he created a steam-powered tricycle.[25] He also constructed two steam tractors for the French Army, one of which is preserved in the French National Conservatory of Arts and Crafts.[26] His inventions were, however, handicapped by problems with a water supply and maintaining steam pressure.[26] In 1801, Richard Trevithick built and demonstrated his Puffing Devil road locomotive, believed by many to be the first demonstration of a steam-powered road vehicle. It was unable to maintain sufficient steam pressure for long periods and was of little practical use. The development of external combustion engines is detailed as part of the history of the car but often treated separately from the development of true cars. A variety of steam-powered road vehicles were used during the first part of the 19th century, including steam cars, steam buses, phaetons, and steam rollers. Sentiment against them led to the Locomotive Acts of 1865. In 1807, Nicéphore Niépce and his brother Claude created what was probably the world's first internal combustion engine (which they called a Pyréolophore), but they chose to install it in a boat on the river Saone in France.[27] Coincidentally, in 1807 the Swiss inventor François Isaac de Rivaz designed his own 'de Rivaz internal combustion engine' and used it to develop the world's first vehicle to be powered by such an engine. The Niépces' Pyréolophore was fuelled by a mixture of Lycopodium powder (dried spores of the Lycopodium plant), finely crushed coal dust, and resin that were mixed with oil, whereas de Rivaz used a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen.[27] Neither design was very successful, as was the case with others, such as Samuel Brown, Samuel Morey, and Etienne Lenoir with his hippo mobile, who each produced vehicles (usually adapted carriages or carts) powered by internal combustion engines.[1] Gustave Trouvé's tricycle, the first-ever electric automobile to be shown in public Karl Benz, the inventor of the modern car In November 1881, French inventor Gustave Trouvé demonstrated the first working (three-wheeled) car powered by electricity at the International Exposition of Electricity, Paris.[28] Although several other German engineers (including Gottlieb Daimler, Wilhelm Maybach, and Siegfried Marcus) were working on the problem at about the same time, Karl Benz generally is acknowledged as the inventor of the modern car.[1] The original Benz Patent-Motorwagen, first built in 1885 and awarded the patent for the concept In 1879, Benz was granted a patent for his first engine, which had been designed in 1878. Many of his other inventions made the use of the internal combustion engine feasible for powering a vehicle. His first Motorwagen was built in 1885 in Mannheim, Germany. He was awarded the patent for its invention as of his application on 29 January 1886 (under the auspices of his major company, Benz & Cie., which was founded in 1883). Benz began the promotion of the vehicle on 3 July 1886, and about 25 Benz vehicles were sold between 1888 and 1893 when his first four-wheeler was introduced along with a cheaper model. They also were powered with four-stroke engines of his design. Emile Roger of France, already producing Benz engines under license, now added the Benz car to his line of products. Because France was more open to the early cars, initially more were built and sold in France through Roger than Benz sold in Germany. In August 1888 Bertha Benz, the wife of Karl Benz, undertook the first road trip by the car, to prove the road-worthiness of her husband's invention. Bertha Benz, the first long-distance driver In 1896, Benz designed and patented the first internal-combustion flat engine, called boxer motor. During the last years of the nineteenth century, Benz was the largest car company in the world with 572 units produced in 1899 and, because of its size, Benz & Cie. became a joint-stock company. The first motor car in central Europe and one of the first factory-made cars in the world was produced by Czech company Nesselsdorfer Wagenbau (later renamed to Tatra) in 1897, the Präsident automobile. Daimler and Maybach founded Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft (DMG) in Cannstatt in 1890, and sold their first car in 1892 under the brand name Daimler. It was a horse-drawn stagecoach built by another manufacturer, which they retrofitted with an engine of their design. By 1895 about 30 vehicles had been built by Daimler and Maybach, either at the Daimler works or in the Hotel Hermann, where they set up shop after disputes with their backers. Benz, Maybach, and the Daimler team seem to have been unaware of each other's early work. They never worked together; by the time of the merger of the two companies, Daimler and Maybach were no longer part of DMG. Daimler died in 1900 and later that year, Maybach designed an engine named Daimler-Mercedes that was placed in a specially ordered model built to specifications set by Emil Jellinek. This was a production of a small number of vehicles for Jellinek to race and market in his country. Two years later, in 1902, a new model DMG car was produced and the model was named Mercedes after the Maybach engine, which generated 35 hp. Maybach quit DMG shortly thereafter and opened a business of his own. Rights to the Daimler brand name were sold to other manufacturers. Karl Benz proposed co-operation between DMG and Benz & Cie. when economic conditions began to deteriorate in Germany following the First World War, but the directors of DMG refused to consider it initially. Negotiations between the two companies resumed several years later when these conditions worsened, and in 1924, they signed an Agreement of Mutual Interest, valid until the year 2000. Both enterprises standardized design, production, purchasing, and sales, and they advertised or marketed their car models jointly, although keeping their respective brands. On 28 June 1926, Benz & Cie. and DMG finally merged as the Daimler-Benz company, baptizing all of its cars Mercedes Benz, as a brand honoring the most important model of the DMG cars, the Maybach design later referred to as the 1902 Mercedes-35 hp, along with the Benz name. Karl Benz remained a member of the board of directors of Daimler-Benz until he died in 1929, and at times, his two sons also participated in the management of the company. Émile Levassor Armand Peugeot In 1890, Émile Levassor and Armand Peugeot of France began producing vehicles with Daimler engines, and so laid the foundation of the automotive industry in France. In 1891, Auguste Doriot and his Peugeot colleague Louis Rigoulot completed the longest trip by a gasoline-powered vehicle when their self-designed and built Daimler powered Peugeot Type 3 completed 2,100 km (1,300 miles) from Valentigney to Paris and Brest and back again. They were attached to the first Paris–Brest–Paris bicycle race but finished 6 days after the winning cyclist, Charles Terront. The first design for an American car with a gasoline internal combustion engine was made in 1877 by George Selden of Rochester, New York. Selden applied for a patent for a car in 1879, but the patent application expired because the vehicle was never built. After a delay of sixteen years and a series of attachments to his application, on 5 November 1895, Selden has granted a United States patent (U.S. Patent 549,160) for a two-stroke car engine, which hindered, more than encouraged, development of cars in the United States. His patent was challenged by Henry Ford and others and overturned in 1911. In 1893, the first running, gasoline-powered American car was built and road-tested by the Duryea brothers of Springfield, Massachusetts. The first public run of the Duryea Motor Wagon took place on 21 September 1893, on Taylor Street in Metro Center Springfield.[29][30] The Studebaker Automobile Company, a subsidiary of a long-established wagon and coach manufacturer, started to build cars in 1897[31]:p.66 and commenced sales of electric vehicles in 1902 and gasoline vehicles in 1904.[32] In Britain, there had been several attempts to build steam cars with varying degrees of success, with Thomas Rickett even attempting a production run in 1860.[33] Santler from Malvern is recognized by the Veteran Car Club of Great Britain as having made the first gasoline-powered car in the country in 1894,[34] followed by Frederick William Lanchester in 1895, but these were both one-offs.[34] The first production vehicles in Great Britain came from the Daimler Company, a company founded by Harry J. Lawson in 1896, after purchasing the right to use the name of the engines. Lawson's company made its first car in 1897, and they bore the name Daimler.[34] In 1892, German engineer Rudolf Diesel was granted a patent for a "New Rational Combustion Engine". In 1897, he built the first diesel engine.[1] Steam-, electric-, and gasoline-powered vehicles competed for decades, with gasoline internal combustion engines achieving dominance in the 1910s. Although various pistonless rotary engine designs have attempted to compete with the conventional piston and crankshaft design, only Mazda's version of the Wankel engine has had more than very limited success. All in all, it is estimated that over 100,000 patents created the modern automobile and motorcycle.[35] Mass production See also: Automotive industry Ransom E. Olds founded Olds Motor Vehicle Company (Oldsmobile) in 1897 Henry Ford founded Ford Motor Company in 1903 1927 Ford Model T Kiichiro Toyoda, president of the Toyota Motor Corporation 1941–1950 Mass production at a Toyota plant in the 1950s Large-scale, production-line manufacturing of affordable cars was started by Ransom Olds in 1901 at his Oldsmobile factory in Lansing, Michigan, and based upon stationary assembly line techniques pioneered by Marc Isambard Brunel at the Portsmouth Block Mills, England, in 1802. The assembly line style of mass production and interchangeable parts had been pioneered in the U.S. by Thomas Blanchard in 1821, at the Springfield Armory in Springfield, Massachusetts.[36] This concept was greatly expanded by Henry Ford, beginning in 1913 with the world's first moving assembly line for cars at the Highland Park Ford Plant. As a result, Ford's cars came off the line in fifteen-minute intervals, much faster than previous methods, increasing productivity eightfold, while using less manpower (from 12.5-man-hours to 1 hour 33 minutes).[37] It was so successful, paint became a bottleneck. Only Japan black would dry fast enough, forcing the company to drop the variety of colors available before 1913, until fast-drying Duco lacquer was developed in 1926. This is the source of Ford's apocryphal remark, "any color as long as it's black".[37] In 1914, an assembly line worker could buy a Model T with four months' pay.[37] Ford's complex safety procedures—especially assigning each worker to a specific location instead of allowing them to roam about—dramatically reduced the rate of injury.[citation needed] The combination of high wages and high efficiency is called "Fordism," and was copied by most major industries. The efficiency gains from the assembly line also coincided with the economic rise of the United States. The assembly line forced workers to work at a certain pace with very repetitive motions which led to more output per worker while other countries were using less productive methods. In the automotive industry, its success was dominating, and quickly spread worldwide seeing the founding of Ford France and Ford Britain in 1911, Ford Denmark 1923, Ford Germany 1925; in 1921, Citroen was the first native European manufacturer to adopt the production method. Soon, companies had to have assembly lines, or risk going broke; by 1930, 250 companies that did not, had disappeared.[37] The development of automotive technology was rapid, due in part to the hundreds of small manufacturers competing to gain the world's attention. Key developments included electric ignition and the electric self-starter (both by Charles Kettering, for the Cadillac Motor Company in 1910–1911), independent suspension, and four-wheel brakes. Since the 1920s, nearly all cars have been mass-produced to meet market needs, so marketing plans often have heavily influenced car design. It was Alfred P. Sloan who established the idea of different makes of cars produced by one company, called the General Motors Companion Make Program so that buyers could "move up" as their fortunes improved. Reflecting the rapid pace of change, makes shared parts with one another so larger production volume resulted in lower costs for each price range. For example, in the 1930s, LaSalles, sold by Cadillac, used cheaper mechanical parts made by Oldsmobile; in the 1950s, Chevrolet shared hood, doors, roof, and windows with Pontiac; by the 1990s, corporate powertrains and shared platforms (with interchangeable brakes, suspension, and other parts) were common. Even so, only major makers could afford high costs, and even companies with decades of production, such as Apperson, Cole, Dorris, Haynes, or Premier, could not manage: of some two hundred American car makers in existence in 1920, only 43 survived in 1930, and with the Great Depression, by 1940, only 17 of those were left.[37] In Europe, much the same would happen. Morris set up its production line at Cowley in 1924, and soon outsold Ford, while beginning in 1923 to follow Ford's practice of vertical integration, buying Hotchkiss (engines), Wrigley (gearboxes), and Osberton (radiators), for instance, as well as competitors, such as Wolseley: in 1925, Morris, had 41% of total British car production. Most British small-car assemblers, from Abbey to Xtra, had gone under. Citroen did the same in France, coming to cars in 1919; between them and other cheap cars in reply such as Renault's 10CV and Peugeot's 5CV, they produced 550,000 cars in 1925, and Mors, Hurtu, and others could not compete.[37] Germany's first mass-manufactured car, the Opel 4PS Laubfrosch (Tree Frog), came off the line at Russelsheim in 1924, soon making Opel the top car builder in Germany, with 37.5% of the market.[37] In Japan, car production was very limited before World War II. Only a handful of companies were producing vehicles in limited numbers, and these were small, three-wheeled for commercial uses, like Daihatsu, or were the result of partnering with European companies, like Isuzu building the Wolseley A-9 in 1922. Mitsubishi was also partnered with Fiat and built the Mitsubishi Model A based on a Fiat vehicle. Toyota, Nissan, Suzuki, Mazda, and Honda began as companies producing non-automotive products before the war, switching to car production during the 1950s. Kiichiro Toyoda's decision to take Toyoda Loom Works into automobile manufacturing would create what would eventually become Toyota Motor Corporation, the largest automobile manufacturer in the world. Subaru, meanwhile, was formed from a conglomerate of six companies who banded together as Fuji Heavy Industries, as a result of having been broken up under keiretsu legislation. Fuel and propulsion technologies See also: Alternative fuel vehicle The Nissan Leaf is an all-electric car launched in December 2010 According to the European Environment Agency, the transport sector is a major contributor to air pollution, noise pollution, and climate change.[38] Most cars in use in the 2010s run on gasoline burnt in an internal combustion engine (ICE). The International Organization of Motor Vehicle Manufacturers says that, in countries that mandate low sulfur gasoline, gasoline-fuelled cars built too late 2010s standards (such as Euro-6) emit very little local air pollution.[39][40] Some cities ban older gasoline-fuelled cars and some countries plan to ban sales in the future. However, some environmental groups say this phase-out of fossil fuel vehicles must be brought forward to limit climate change. Production of gasoline-fueled cars peaked in 2017.[41][42] Other hydrocarbon fossil fuels also burnt by the deflagration (rather than detonation) in ICE cars include diesel, Autogas, and CNG. Removal of fossil fuel subsidies,[43][44] concerns about oil dependence, tightening environmental laws, and restrictions on greenhouse gas emissions are propelling work on alternative power systems for cars. This includes hybrid vehicles, plug-in electric vehicles, and hydrogen vehicles. 2.1 million light electric vehicles (of all types but mainly cars) were sold in 2018, over half in China: this was an increase of 64% on the previous year, giving a global total on the road of 5.4 million.[45] Vehicles using alternative fuels such as ethanol flexible-fuel vehicles and natural gas vehicles[clarification needed] are also gaining popularity in some countries.[citation needed] Cars for racing or speed records have sometimes employed jet or rocket engines, but these are impractical for common use. Oil consumption has increased rapidly in the 20th and 21st centuries because there are more cars; the 1985–2003 oil glut even fuelled the sales of low-economy vehicles in OECD countries. The BRIC countries are adding to this consumption. User interface See also: Car controls In the Ford Model T, the left-side hand lever sets the rear wheel parking brakes and puts the transmission in neutral. The lever to the right controls the throttle. The lever on the left of the steering column is for ignition timing. The left foot pedal changes the two forward gears while the center pedal controls reverse. The right pedal is the brake. Cars are equipped with controls used for driving, passenger comfort, and safety, normally operated by a combination of the use of feet and hands, and occasionally by voice on 21st-century cars. These controls include a steering wheel, pedals for operating the brakes and controlling the car's speed (and, in a manual transmission car, a clutch pedal), a shift lever or stick for changing gears, and several buttons and dials for turning on lights, ventilation, and other functions. Modern cars' controls are now standardized, such as the location for the accelerator and brake, but this was not always the case. Controls are evolving in response to new technologies, for example, the electric car and the integration of mobile communications. Some of the original controls are no longer required. For example, all cars once had controls for the choke valve, clutch, ignition timing, and a crank instead of an electric starter. However new controls have also been added to vehicles, making them more complex. These include air conditioning, navigation systems, and in-car entertainment. Another trend is the replacement of physical knobs and switches by secondary controls with touchscreen controls such as BMW's iDrive and Ford's MyFord Touch. Another change is that while early cars' pedals were physically linked to the brake mechanism and throttle, in the 2010s, cars have increasingly replaced these physical linkages with electronic controls. Lighting Main article: Automotive lighting LED daytime running lights on an Audi A4 Cars are typically fitted with multiple types of lights. These include headlights, which are used to illuminate the way ahead and make the car visible to other users so that the vehicle can be used at night; in some jurisdictions, daytime running lights; red brake lights to indicate when the brakes are applied; amber turn signal lights to indicate the turn intentions of the driver; white-colored reverse lights to illuminate the area behind the car (and indicate that the driver will be or is reversing); and on some vehicles, additional lights (e.g., side marker lights) to increase the visibility of the car. Interior lights on the ceiling of the car are usually fitted for the driver and passengers. Some vehicles also have a trunk light and, more rarely, an engine compartment light. Weight The Smart Fortwo car from 1998 to 2002, weighing 730 kg (1,610 lb) A Chevrolet Suburban extended-length SUV weighs 3,300 kg (7,200 lb) (gross weight)[46] During the late 20th and early 21st century cars increased in weight due to batteries,[47] modern steel safety cages, anti-lock brakes, airbags, and "more-powerful—if more-efficient—engines"[48] and, as of 2019, typically weigh between 1 and 3 tonnes.[49] Heavier cars are safer for the driver from a crash perspective, but more dangerous for other vehicles and road users.[48] The weight of a car influences fuel consumption and performance, with more weight resulting in increased fuel consumption and decreased performance. The SmartFortwo, a small city car, weighs 750–795 kg (1,655–1,755 lb). Heavier cars include full-size cars, SUVs, and extended-length SUVs like the Suburban. According to research conducted by Julian Allwood of the University of Cambridge, global energy use could be greatly reduced by using lighter cars, and an average weight of 500 kg (1,100 lb) has been said to be well achievable.[50][better source needed] In some competitions such as the Shell Eco-Marathon, average car weights of 45 kg (99 lb) have also been achieved.[51] These cars are only single-seaters (still falling within the definition of a car, although 4-seater cars are more common), but they nevertheless demonstrate the amount by which car weights could still be reduced, and the subsequent lower fuel use (i.e. up to fuel use of 2560 km/l).[52] Seating and body style See also: Car body style, Car classification, Truck classification, and Vehicle size class Most cars are designed to carry multiple occupants, often with four or five seats. Cars with five seats typically seat two passengers in the front and three in the rear. Full-size cars and large sport utility vehicles can often carry six, seven, or more occupants depending on the arrangement of the seats. On the other hand, sports cars are most often designed with only two seats. The differing needs for passenger capacity and their luggage or cargo space have resulted in the availability of a large variety of body styles to meet individual consumer requirements that include, among others, the sedan/saloon, hatchback, station wagon/estate, and minivan. Safety Main articles: Car safety, Traffic collision, Low-speed vehicle, and Epidemiology of motor vehicle collisions Result of a serious car collision Traffic collisions are the largest cause of injury-related deaths worldwide.[9] Mary Ward became one of the first documented car fatalities in 1869 in Parsonstown, Ireland,[53] and Henry Bliss one of the United States' first pedestrian car casualties in 1899 in New York City.[54] There are now standard tests for safety in new cars, such as the EuroNCAP and the US NCAP tests,[55] and insurance-industry-backed tests by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS).[56] Costs and benefits Main articles: Economics of car usage, Car costs, and Effects of the car on societies Road congestion is an issue in many major cities. (pictured is Chang'an Avenue in Beijing)[57] The costs of car usage, which may include the cost of acquiring the vehicle, repairs and auto maintenance, fuel, depreciation, driving time, parking fees, taxes, and insurance,[8] are weighed against the cost of the alternatives, and the value of the benefits – perceived and real – of vehicle usage. The benefits may include on-demand transportation, mobility, independence, and convenience.[10] During the 1920s, cars had another benefit: "[c]ouples finally had a way to head off on unchaperoned dates, plus they had a private space to snuggle up close at the end of the night."[58] Similarly, the costs to society of car use may include; maintaining roads, land use, air pollution, road congestion, public health, health care, and disposing of the vehicle at the end of its life; and can be balanced against the value of the benefits to society that car use generates. Societal benefits may include economic benefits, such as job and wealth creation, car production and maintenance, transportation provision, society wellbeing derived from leisure and travel opportunities, and revenue generation from the tax opportunities. The ability of humans to move flexibly from place to place has far-reaching implications for the nature of societies.[11] Environmental impact See also: Exhaust gas, Waste tires, Environmental impact of transport, Motor vehicle emissions and pregnancy, Noise pollution, Environmental aspects of the electric car, Vehicle recycling, and Externalities of automobiles Vehicles in use per country from 2001 to 2007. It shows the significant growth in BRIC. Cars are a major cause of urban air pollution,[59] with all types of cars producing dust from brakes, tires, and road wear.[60] As of 2018, the average diesel car has a worse effect on air quality than the average gasoline car[61] But both gasoline and diesel cars pollute more than electric cars.[62] While there are different ways to power cars most rely on gasoline or diesel, and they consume almost a quarter of world oil production as of 2019.[41] In 2018 passenger road vehicles emitted 3.6 gigatonnes of carbon dioxide.[63] As of 2019, due to greenhouse gases emitted during battery production, electric cars must be driven tens of thousands of kilometers before their lifecycle carbon emissions are less than fossil fuel cars:[64] but this is expected to improve in the future due to longer lasting[65] batteries being produced in larger factories,[66] and lower-carbon electricity. Many governments are using fiscal policies, such as road tax, to discourage the purchase and use of more polluting cars;[67] and many cities are doing the same with low-emission zones.[68] Fuel taxes may act as an incentive for the production of more efficient, hence less polluting, car designs (e.g. hybrid vehicles), and the development of alternative fuels. High fuel taxes or cultural change may provide a strong incentive for consumers to purchase lighter, smaller, more fuel-efficient cars, or to not drive.[68] The lifetime of a car built in the 2020s is expected to be about 16 years, or about 2 million kilometers (1.2 million miles) if driven a lot.[69] According to the International Energy Agency, fuel economy improved 0.7% in 2017, but an annual improvement of 3.7% is needed to meet the Global Fuel Economy Initiative 2030 target.[70] The increase in sales of SUVs is bad for fuel economy.[41] Many cities in Europe, have banned older fossil fuel cars and all fossil fuel vehicles will be banned in Amsterdam from 2030.[71] Many Chinese cities limit licensing of fossil fuel cars,[72] and many countries plan to stop selling them between 2025 and 2050.[73] The manufacture of vehicles is resource-intensive, and many manufacturers now report on the environmental performance of their factories, including energy usage, waste, and water consumption.[74] Manufacturing each kWh of battery emits a similar amount of carbon as burning through one full tank of gasoline.[75] The growth in popularity of the car allowed cities to sprawl, therefore encouraging more travel by car resulting in inactivity and obesity, which in turn can lead to increased risk of a variety of diseases.[76] Animals and plants are often negatively impacted by cars via habitat destruction and pollution. Over the lifetime of the average car the "loss of habitat potential" may be over 50,000 m2 (540,000 sq ft) based on primary production correlations.[77] Animals are also killed every year on roads by cars, referred to as roadkill. More recent road developments are including significant environmental mitigation in their designs, such as green bridges (designed to allow wildlife crossings) and creating wildlife corridors. Growth in the popularity of vehicles and commuting has led to traffic congestion. Moscow, Istanbul, Bogota, Mexico City, and Sao Paulo were the world's most congested cities in 2018 according to INRIX, a data analytics company.[78] Emerging car technologies Although intensive development of conventional battery electric vehicles is continuing into the 2020s,[79] other car propulsion technologies that are under development include wheel hub motors,[80] wireless charging,[81] hydrogen cars,[82] and hydrogen/electric hybrids.[83] Research into alternative forms of power includes using ammonia instead of hydrogen in fuel cells.[84] New materials[85] which may replace steel car bodies include duralumin, fiberglass, carbon fiber, biocomposites, and carbon nanotubes. Telematics technology is allowing more and more people to share cars, on a pay-as-you-go basis, through car share and carpool schemes. Communication is also evolving due to connected car systems.[86] Autonomous car Main article: Autonomous car This section needs expansion. You can help by adding to it. (November 2019) A robotic Volkswagen Passat shown at Stanford University is a driverless car Fully autonomous vehicles, also known as driverless cars, already exist in prototype (such as the Google driverless car) but have a long way to go before they are in general use. Open source development Main article: Open-source car There have been several projects aiming to develop a car on the principles of open design, an approach to designing in which the plans for the machinery and systems are publicly shared, often without monetary compensation. The projects include OScar, Riversimple (through 40fires.org)[87], and c, mm,n.[88] None of the projects have reached significant success in terms of developing a car as a whole both from a hardware and software perspective and no mass production ready open-source based design have been introduced as of late 2009. Some car hacking through on-board diagnostics (OBD) has been done so far.[89] Car sharing Car-share arrangements and carpooling are also increasingly popular, in the US and Europe.[90] For example, in the US, some car-sharing services have experienced double-digit growth in revenue and membership growth between 2006 and 2007. Services like car sharing offering residents to "share" a vehicle rather than own a car in already congested neighborhoods.[91] Industry Main article: Automotive industry This section needs expansion. You can help by adding to it. (March 2019) A car being assembled in a factory The automotive industry designs, develops, manufactures, markets, and sells the world's motor vehicles, more than three-quarters of which are cars. In 2018 there were 70 million cars manufactured worldwide,[92] down 2 million from the previous year.[93] The automotive industry in China produces by far the most (24 million in 2018), followed by Japan (8 million), Germany (5 million), and India (4 million).[92] The largest market is China, followed by the USA. Around the world there are about a billion cars on the road;[94] they burn over a trillion liters of gasoline and diesel fuel yearly, consuming about 50 EJ (nearly 300 terawatt-hours) of energy.[95] The number of cars is increasing rapidly in China and India.[12] In the opinion of some, urban transport systems based around the car have proved unsustainable, consuming excessive energy, affecting the health of populations, and delivering a declining level of service despite increasing investment. Many of these negative impacts fall disproportionately on those social groups who are also least likely to own and drive cars.[96][97] The sustainable transport movement focuses on solutions to these problems. The car industry is also facing increasing competition from the public transport sector, as some people re-evaluate their private vehicle usage. Alternatives Main article: Alternatives to car use The Vélib' in Paris, France is the largest bike-sharing system outside China[98] Established alternatives for some aspects of car use include public transport such as buses, trolleybuses, trains, subways, tramways, light rail, cycling, and walking. Bicycle sharing systems have been established in China and many European cities, including Copenhagen and Amsterdam. Similar programs have been developed in large US cities.[99][100] Additional individual modes of transport, such as personal rapid transit could serve as an alternative to cars if they prove to be socially accepted.[101] Other meanings The term motorcar was formerly also used in the context of electrified rail systems to denote a car that functions as a small locomotive but also provides space for passengers and baggage. These locomotive cars were often used on suburban routes by both interurban and intercity railroad systems.[102]

Mr. Worm YT (talk) 18:47, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Please state consisely what change you are asking for. RudolfRed (talk) 19:16, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 March 2021 (2)

I have fixed various grammar/spelling mistakes via Grammarly Mr. Worm YT (talk) 22:41, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. J850NK (talk) 22:45, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 April 2021

Hello, I am Aemanops8135. I would like to edit this page because I want to add more infomation. Aemanops8135 (talk) 18:54, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:00, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 April 2021

Hello, I am Aemanops8135. I would like to edit this page because I want to add more infomation. Aemanops8135 (talk) 18:54, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

 Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 19:00, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

"Mutakaye" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Mutakaye. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 November 26#Mutakaye until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Certes (talk) 17:06, 26 November 2021 (UTC)

How it works

Engine: the starter motor starts the engine, but as the metal contacts advance, they contact, acivating the spark plug. the spark plug then pushes the piston down, turning the crankshaft which keeps the engine going.TigersPrez (talk) 18:20, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 August 2020 and 17 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Gregory Dododzah.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 18:38, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 February 2022

23.131.176.5 (talk) 16:55, 3 February 2022 (UTC) Cars have 4 wheels and some have 3. Most car are all wheel drive but some are rear wheel drive

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:01, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 June 2022

Would like to add a citation for the following statement: Ford's complex safety procedures—especially assigning each worker to a specific location instead of allowing them to roam about—dramatically reduced the rate of injury MLISacademic (talk) 10:54, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

We need a reliable reference to support this claim.  Stepho  talk  10:58, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

Why are automobiles called automobiles?

The word "auto" implies a self-sufficiency that is just not there. People are the ones who activate and move the car. So why is the name "automobile" correct? 2A02:2149:8BC3:E700:97:C136:7D5C:FB0F (talk) 21:37, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

So you're saying when someone writes an autobiography, they compose the text, set the type, operate the printing press and bind each book themselves? An automatic firearm points itself at the target and fires itself? An automated teller machine dispenses money whenever it sees fit, whenever the machine feels like it? Whoever told you that "auto" is restricted to absolute self-sufficiency wasn't very familiar with the English language.

Wagons, carts, and carriages didn't pull themselves; an animal or person was necessary to move it. "Auto" simply means that compared to previous forms of transport, motor vehicles moved themselves. Like wagons or carts, automobiles still required a driver. Letting the horses or oxen decide where to go didn't work out. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 21:48, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

How is the layout messy?

CactiStaccingCrane - could you explain in more detail please? Chidgk1 (talk) 13:32, 7 September 2022 (UTC)

Chidgk1, Personally I think some sections in the article should be merged or splitted, such as "History" merged with "Mass production" or splitting "Electronics and interior", then transfer the interior info to "Seating and body style" instead. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 00:20, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

CactiStaccingCrane Sounds good to me. Unless anyone objects you should do it. Chidgk1 (talk) 14:51, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Agree. Although the history parts should be moved to History of the automobile.  Stepho  talk  01:25, 10 September 2022 (UTC)