Talk:Canterbury Cricket Week
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1839 start?
[edit]Although Kent recognise 1842 as the first official week, there's a school of thought that recognises 1839 as the first one. For instance this refers to Canterbury Cricket Week - An Authentic Narrative of the Origin and Career of the Institution. Vol I. 1839-1851 (Canterbury:William Davy, 1865). What seems to have happened is that the Beverley Cricket Club started the festival in 1839 at their ground in St Stephens, moved to the Beverley Ground on the Sturry road in 1840, and in 1841 they had the financial resources to get the best professionals over from Malling for a Kent XI vs an England XI. 1842 merely marks the BCC renaming itself the (East) Kent Cricket Club and taking over the role of de facto county organisation. In any case the article should have more about the role of the Beverley in establishing the Week, and the early emphasis on the social aspects, particularly on theatre.Le Deluge (talk) 23:05, 8 May 2013 (UTC)
- I agree in particular about the need to have more about the theatre side and the Old Stagers. I don't know enough about the history of the Week to give an opinion on the start date, but since you have what appears to be a reliable source for the 1839 date I think it would be reasonable to put what you've written above into the article itself. JH (talk page) 08:20, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
- Trouble is that I don't have solid WP:RS to go on at the moment, the above is my attempt to reconstruct what happened based on some fragments on Google Books and the tourist sign on St Stephen's Green, effectively it's WP:OR although I'm reasonably confident it's closer to the truth than the official KCCC line of "nothing before 1842". The early history of KCCC is particularly complicated as from 1859-1870 there were two organisations for professional cricket, at Canterbury and Maidstone - West Kent always had the money to take professional cricket more seriously whilst the amateurs had more sway in rural East Kent, and the latter seem to have won the battle for influence although East Kent didn't really have the money to support a pro team. Looking more closely, the name change to EKCC seems to have happened soon after the move to the Beverley Ground, and KCCC was set up as a parallel professional team at the end of 1842 Week (so in fact the argument that the 1842 Week was the first one organised by KCCC isn't technically true!). Canterbury CC claim to be the true inheritors of the Beverley mantle; the sources get pretty muddled on the relationships between the amateur and pro clubs until the Maidstone and Canterbury pro clubs united in 1870. I didn't mean to go too closely into all this, I only came across these articles whilst trying to confirm the location of the Beverley Ground for something else and I have a ton of other things to be getting on with - but it would be quite nice to get a sight of that 1839-1851 history to try and put this to bed. It's pretty specialist though - might have to go to Lord's or somewhere, MCC must have a library? Le Deluge (talk) 11:07, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, MCC have a library. Kent CCC might well have a library too, and if they do would probably be more likely to have the book in question. JH (talk page) 16:12, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
- I suspect that there is also a historic cricket book stand at the Tunbridge Wells Cricket week too (at least from what I remember last time I went) so there might be a book with it there. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 16:14, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
- Yes, MCC have a library. Kent CCC might well have a library too, and if they do would probably be more likely to have the book in question. JH (talk page) 16:12, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
- Trouble is that I don't have solid WP:RS to go on at the moment, the above is my attempt to reconstruct what happened based on some fragments on Google Books and the tourist sign on St Stephen's Green, effectively it's WP:OR although I'm reasonably confident it's closer to the truth than the official KCCC line of "nothing before 1842". The early history of KCCC is particularly complicated as from 1859-1870 there were two organisations for professional cricket, at Canterbury and Maidstone - West Kent always had the money to take professional cricket more seriously whilst the amateurs had more sway in rural East Kent, and the latter seem to have won the battle for influence although East Kent didn't really have the money to support a pro team. Looking more closely, the name change to EKCC seems to have happened soon after the move to the Beverley Ground, and KCCC was set up as a parallel professional team at the end of 1842 Week (so in fact the argument that the 1842 Week was the first one organised by KCCC isn't technically true!). Canterbury CC claim to be the true inheritors of the Beverley mantle; the sources get pretty muddled on the relationships between the amateur and pro clubs until the Maidstone and Canterbury pro clubs united in 1870. I didn't mean to go too closely into all this, I only came across these articles whilst trying to confirm the location of the Beverley Ground for something else and I have a ton of other things to be getting on with - but it would be quite nice to get a sight of that 1839-1851 history to try and put this to bed. It's pretty specialist though - might have to go to Lord's or somewhere, MCC must have a library? Le Deluge (talk) 11:07, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
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