Talk:Canning/Archives/2012

Good Resource for Learning Canning and Preserving

This site http://www.dawnapproaches.com/canningpreserving.html contains a wonderful compendium of 41 old classic canning, preserving, pickling and dehydrating books on DVD-ROM. I highly recommend it to anyone who cans and preserves food. I used these resources to learn all the tricks of the trade when I first started canning and I have shared their knowledge ever since. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CannerBaby (talk • contribs) 08:02, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Sounds like urban legend

However, glass containers were unsuitable for transportation, and soon they had been replaced with cylindrical tin or steel cans. (Tin-openers were not to be invented for another thirty years — at first, soldiers either had to cut the cans open with bayonets or smash them open with rocks to get the food out) The French Army began experimenting with issuing tinned foods to its soldiers, but the slow process of tinning foods and the even slower development stage, along with the difficulties of loading wooden wagons with tons of metal canisters, prevented the army from shipping large amounts around the Empire, and the war ended before the process could be perfected. Unfortunately for Appert, the factory which he had built with his prize money was burned down in 1814 by Allied soldiers invading France.

Why would anyone have to smash open a can? Every soldier has a bayonette, and even if you lost yours, someone else would have one. This would only be a problem if you were alone, and the original servings were not individual servings, they were tinned meats for serving several people at a time.

Why would it be difficult to carry tons of square metal canisters when already armies were transporting tons of round cannonballs, and huge cannons?

These sound like urban myths, and not really verifiable research. Maybe some sound references would help or some good editing.

--Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 16:52, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

• No, these problems were quite real for the French Army. You're right that cannonballs and heavy artillery were carried around easily enough, but such items were carried in very small quantities by large numbers of small, fast wagons. Foodstuffs, including tinned food, had to be carried on large, slow transport wagons, which were not designed to carry large amounts of such heavy items. As for the rocks, there are several references to soldiers having to smash open tins (which were a lot more fragile than those we have today) to extract the food. Rusty2005 10:10, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Metal cans had to be opened with chisels, etc., for several decades. While surely such implements would have been issued (after a while, anyway) there were just as surely incidents in which they were lost, forgotten, etc.--Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 16:13, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

In desperate need of pictures

the description of how canning is done is in dire need of visuals. I am a machinist, and trained in seeing machines work and how they function, and I'm having trouble seeing how these cans can be made. I am a professional, How can the normal person figure it out? thanks 71.141.91.106 01:28, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Article on "Cannery" needed

Currently [[Cannery]] redirects here, which IMO it shouldn't. A cannery is a full industrial sector in the history of where I'm from (British Columbia and the Pacific Northwest in general) and there's a whole history to the canning industry and various cannery towns, and assorted social and cultural and political issues to do with same. I'm not an expert but I'll post a link to this somewhere that someone who might be capable of writing an article would see it.Skookum1 06:47, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I'm working on two articles about canneries. One is almost done Monterey clipper and the second is salmon canneries. I'll put together a stub on this, if we can all agree. meatclerk 07:57, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Uncited material

I removed the following material as it was added by an annoymous user uncited. meatclerk 05:24, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Some food firms are currently experimenting with self-heating cans.

Food Preservation reference to canning and bottling

Canning and Bottling Preserved food Enlarge Preserved food

Canning involves cooking fruits or vegetables, sealing them in sterile cans or jars, and boiling the containers to kill or weaken any remaining bacteria. Various foods have varying degrees of natural protection against spoilage and may require that the final step occur in a pressure cooker. High-acid fruits like strawberries require no preservatives to can and only a short boiling cycle, whereas marginal fruits such as tomatoes require longer boiling and addition of other acidic elements. Many vegetables require pressure canning. Food preserved by canning or bottling is at immediate risk of spoilage once the can or bottle has been opened.

Lack of quality control in the canning process may allow ingress of water or micro-organisms. Most such failures are rapidly detected as decomposition within the can causes gas production and the can will swell or burst. However, there have been examples of poor manufacture and poor hygiene allowing contanmination of canned food by the obligate anaerobe, Clostridium botulinum which produces an acute toxin within the food leading to severe illness or death. This organism produces no gas or obvious taste and remains undetected by taste or smell. Food contaminated in this way has included Corned beef and Tuna.

Canning article needs help

Whoever wrote this canning article has included incorrect information, especially re: canning vegetables and pressure cooking. 71.29.179.82 16:26, 31 December 2006 (UTC) Kathy Williams, Berea, KY

Mistake? (Please explain)

Article says: During the early Revolutionary Wars, the notable French newspaper Le Monde, prompted by the government, offered a hefty cash award of 12,000 Francs to any inventor ...

BUT French Revolutionary Wars were a series of major conflicts, from 1792 until 1802, ... ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolutionary_Wars ) AND French newspaper Le Monde was created in 1944 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Monde )

Yes, mistake

As far as I recollect the invention of "canning" is a Napoleonic era invention, but I do not recall a newspaper offering a prize for an invention for preserving food. It would certainly be the napoleonic authorities that offered the prize. <<Le Monde>> AFAIK was in fact founded in 1944, about 135 years after "canning" This is another example of the editorial flaws in Wikipedia process. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.191.140.239 (talk) 04:14, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

External links error -- "Regional canning information from the Agricultural Extension Office"

This link goes to the Web site that I help manage http://www.csrees.usda.gov/ and points to one of our pages incorrectly. We do not provide information on canning (local or otherwise). The best site to find relevant USDA canning info is http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publications/publications_usda.html. I would be greatly appreciative if someone would correct this. Currently visitors are coming to our site with incorrect expectations and, I believe, are being frustrated.

I can be contacted at webchanges@csrees.usda.gov

Many thanks,
Andrew

Date information

The article begins by setting the time period as "during the Civil Wars". Since most readers will not be familiar with French history, the article should either provide the time period in parentheses or hot-link "Civil Wars" to a page where the date is clearly stated. The listings for France in the Wikipedia page on civil wars was not conclusive, so I could not come up with the correct edit myself.

Salliesatt (talk) 00:08, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Heating, nutrients, pressurizing

Why doesn't the food boil inside and nutrients destruct when it is heated at 121 °? How is the pressure added? What kind of stress does a tin can have bear when the food inside heats up and causes expanding gases? Teemu Ruskeepää (talk) 10:16, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. This article could stand to have this information added, IMO. RobertM525 (talk) 01:35, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Famous canned foods?

I can't see why Pineapple is considered a "Famous" canned food. Why is it famous? who made it famous? I can't see it being any more famous than canned bean or peas for that matter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.231.130.2 (talk) 18:35, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Cannery, assessment and images

Three small things. Firstly, cannery redirects here, but the word doesn't even occur once in the article. Second, why is this rated 'top' on the food and drink project? Canning is just one form of food packaging. Finally, an image relating to a cannery would be good. Richard001 (talk) 07:48, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Introduction

The introduction at the moment is ambiguous and waffles with details better left in the body. Ie: "From a public safety point of view, foods with low acidity, i.e., pH > 4.3 need sterilization by canning under conditions of both high temperature (116-130°C) and pressure." Iciac (talk) 05:55, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Too long a heading section, lack of focus

In the current headpiece, quite a lot of bickering is present. I think it should be moved into a separate section down below, if not outright deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Decoy (talk • contribs) 23:35, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I added a citation flag to the first sentence... I can find no reliable sources that claim that consuming canned foods past their 'shelf life' is unsafe. Shelf life is based on the quality of the product, not its safety. 68.115.33.149 (talk) 07:01, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Dented or damaged food cans

Hello does anyone know if it is true that when cans are dented (but unruptured) a mild poison is somehow released inside the can and that the contents are to some degree tainted with this poison. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.96.128.58 (talk) 11:32, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Some severely dented cans might no longer have negative pressure, which years ago was considered a key characteristic for preserving food. The most contemporary findings in the US (from various county coops and university extensions) support a claim that once the food is sealed sterile, it may suffer in flavor, nutrients and especially in "shelf life" for what a consumer would find palatable. As long as the food was processed to sterilize the contents when it was canned, a dented but not punctured can might taste bad sooner, but it will still be edible food for a long, long time. Commercially canned food according to USDA guidelines pretty much never 'goes bad', it just loses its flavor and nutritional value over time. It doesn't turn toxic if it is still sealed.

The very first paragraph of this article suggests that in order to store food for 30 years or more it must be freeze dried AND canned. This is not true at all. Canned wet food may not taste great after 30 years, but if it was canned sterile and the can is still intact, it will still be edible... probably not tasty or anything; but still edible and nontoxic. 68.115.33.149 (talk) 06:49, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Francesco Cirio

This page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francesco_Cirio claims that Francesco Cirio is the inventor of canned foods. I already removed his name from the "canned" disambiguation page, but I'm wondering if this Francesco Cirio exists, and if the information stated is correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.101.72.129 (talk) 10:35, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

It seems oddly qualified - "canned vegetables and meat" throughout, rather than just "canning" - so perhaps he did invent some kind of subset of the canning process. But the company's "about us" page here states that "Francesco Cirio started preserving tomatoes in tins in 1856", which post-dates the invention of metal tin canning by almost half a century. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 17:08, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

He definitely seems to have existed and exported vegetables, however, because he's mentioned in "Francesco+Cirio"&dq="Francesco+Cirio"&hl=en&ei=E2WwTfG0FYmM5Aach-icDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBA this official UK Government report from 1881. He seems to have been hot stuff in the 1880s. Damn you, Google Books, and your inability to work with Wikipedia's URL formatting. Damn you. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 17:15, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Quote at the start of History section

Is the Napoleonic quote really pertinent to the article? I don't see any link between the quote "an army marches on its stomach" and the history of canning, other than it involves food... if so why not bonk it onto every other food-related article? That Ole' Cheesy Dude (Talk to the hand!) 16:40, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

Reference for vitamin content of canned food compared to fresh extremely biased

The article in question has been written for the Steel Packaging Council, i.e. the company that makes the cans that the canned food goes into, so I can't imagine this has remained an unbiased account. Reading through it isn't really written that much like a scientific article either, as it's written in such a way as to highlight the benefits or surprisingly preservative features of canned food, and tends to gloss over the parts where canned food doesn't fare so well. Having said that, I don't think what's written in the wikipedia article is too far off the mark, I just think it would be better if the reader was directed to a less biased article, such as this one perhaps: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsfa.2824/full — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mat8989 (talk • contribs) 16:23, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Canning

Isnt it amazing that is was invented so long ago, and yet, we still use it? I think the technology allows us to develop the idea of canning into something even better. Some way that the botox can be killed and not be found in cans anymore. I think there could be a way.

Any replies? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.160.33.130 (talk • contribs) 18:06, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Blacklisted references

Isn't it funny how this article was missing information about the typical shelf life of products. I was not allowed to post my reference because wikipedia blacklists references to other wiki-style sites (some of them, such as eHow.com). I would like to know why the authors of the original article so blithely left out valuable information in this article? Why would after so many years of wikileaks existing would I have to go out of my way just to add such a simple and obvious piece of information? This is pathetic my expectations were that people were smarter than that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ‎ Stealthc (talk • contribs) 08:14, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

eHow.com is a "content farm" and is widely recognized as an unreliable source. Writing quality varies from extremely poor to fairly good, but is generally without references and footnotes. That's why eHow.com is not acceptable on Wikipedia. — Quicksilver^{T @} 02:01, 2 March 2012 (UTC)