Talk:Can You Duet

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

Keep, 13 June 2024, see discussion.
no consensus, 31 March 2022, see discussion.

This page was proposed for deletion by TenPoundHammer (talk · contribs) on 28 March 2022.

Television Low‑importance

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Notability

I still question the notability of this show. The sourcing I found is extremely poor.

"Local girl to appear on Can You Duet" does not seem like the type of sourcing that confers notability. It'd be like using the news articles I got when I competed on Wheel of Fortune to argue that I'm notable.
A two-sentence blurb in a TV encyclopedia.
A source from CMT itself.
Reality TV World does not appear to be a reliable source.
This is a press release that's more of a fluff piece on Naomi Judd than coverage of the show.
A one-sentence blurb in a "what's on tonight" catch-all.
This is just a one-paragraph blurb used to fill space.
This is a Billboard article that only dedicates a paragraph to CYD in relation to other music based reality shows. This is probably the closest I've found to WP:SIGCOV.

"Can You Duet" + "Lance Smith" on newspapers.com returned only a bunch of reprints of the Naomi Judd-centric press release. All other hits for "Can You Duet" + "Rossi Morreale" only name-drop the show in reference to other projects Morreale worked on, or are reprints of CMT press releases.

Everything else I found was either from CMT's website, articles on contestants that only mention the show in passing ("Artist X, who competed on Can You Duet, is now blah blah blah"), or false positives that used the phrase "can you duet" in contexts unrelated to the show. All of the musicians who competed pass at least one other criterion of WP:BAND to such an extent that competing on CYD seems to have had zero impact on their career.

I trust @Sammi Brie:'s expertise on TV-centric sourcing, so I'm pinging her to see what she thinks of the sources already here, and to see if she can find something I missed. Also pinging @CloversMallRat:, @ChrisTofu11961:, @Caldorwards4:, @Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars:, @Yeehaw45:, and @Martin4647: for their expertise in music related articles. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 16:31, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The show itself looks like it could be notable enough to me, based on some of the people involved. The sources, however, are almost entirely from CMT, who aired the show. Personally, I don’t think the sourcing is up to standard. This could perhaps be used as a source. Yeehaw45 (talk) 16:27, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that's the problem. Most of what I found is from CMT itself and constitutes WP:PRIMARY. The Boot piece is kind of fluffy but is slightly more about the show than almost anything else I've found so far. Also note that the people involved are WP:NOTINHERITED - one host had his article deleted via PROD years ago due to a lack of sourcing. And every act who competed passes at least one other criterion of WP:BAND regardless of their placement on the show, to the point that most bios on them don't even mention the CYD placement whatsoever. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 17:30, 31 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also pinging @Chubbles: and @IJBall: Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 18:35, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Based on the Variety and Television Week sources found at the AfD discussion, it's probably unlikely that this is going to be deleted at AfD – I would add those sources to the article immedaitely. I would also trim the article – there's likely too much WP:INUNIVERSE (and unsourcable) stuff that is endemic to reality TV show articles that needs to be cut.

The only other option is, as per WP:NOPAGE, would be to try and merge coverage of this topic to another article. But I'm not sure there's a suitable destination article target for that. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:44, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@IJBall: I think there is potential to merge/redirect to CMT (American TV channel) or List of programs broadcast by CMT. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 19:09, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That only works if you keep the notable content at the current article in the destination. If you just redirect to a list article, without any of the notable content, there will be objections that it's an attempt to do a "backdoor deletion". --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:14, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Of course preserving some of the content is my goal. My thought was a section on CMT (American TV channel) that details either their ventures into singing competitions or the history of that network as a whole in that era. Something like CMT aired a number of reality shows blah blah blah. From 2008 to 2009, one of the reality shows aired by CMT was Can You Duet, a singing competition for musical duos. The show was hosted by Rossi Moreale for its first season, and CMT personality Lance Smith for its second and final. Caitlin & Will won the first season, and Steel Magnolia won the second. Joey + Rory, who placed third in season one, went on to blah blah blah. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 19:27, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@IJBall: what do you think of my above proposal? Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 15:59, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No objection, or I would have posted a followup. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:28, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

@CloversMallRat:, @Oaktree b: You can't argue that sources exist without proving it. "There were sources, they're just dead now" means nothing unless you can do some archive.org digging to prove them. If you'd look above, you'd see I already did a deep dive on sources and came up empty. Did you find something I didn't? Why do you think the sources above are sufficient? Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 08:05, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ETA: I also doubt the notability of the hosts, as one was deleted long ago, and the other does not appear to be notable on his own. Also, all of the acts who were on the show meet at least one other criterion of WP:NMUSIC regardless of this show's involvement. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 08:07, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Click on the first AfD discussion, the sources are all enumerated there... To be fair, it's a weak keep, but there are sources that talk about the winner, the one season of the show and the other mentions. Oaktree b (talk) 12:19, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Oaktree b: I don't see anyone who brought up sources besides myself in the last AFD. Where are they? Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 00:05, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There ARE sources there as Oaktree has pointed out. The show isn't some big blockbuster recent event that would warrant having a ton of sources, but to act like suddenly it needs to just all be deleted outright because there's nothing new that can be found on the Internet 16 years after it aired is weird to me. Some articles remain smaller stubs with limited sources forever, and some are huge fully-fleshed out articles with hundreds of sources. This is perfectly fine remaining the former. CloversMallRat (talk) 18:15, 15 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]