Talk:Camp Stone

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This page seems to me like an advertisement for camp stone. Anyone willing to clean it up? Leppi 12:56, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Copied from User talk:Cullen328

I need some help with my page - Camp Stone

Hi,

I am not new to reading Wikipedia, but I am brand new to editing. I need help with my page "Camp Stone." I work for Camp Stone and I don't know how to make certain changes that my organization wants to make. Can we speak over the phone? If so, what is the best way to reach you?

Thanks, Yakov Fleischmann --Yakfleisch (talk) 19:49, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Hello Yakfleisch. For reasons of transparency, I prefer to discuss article content right here on Wikipedia. You should start by reading about conflict of interest on Wikipedia. Camp Stone has problems. It lacks references to significant coverage in reliable, independent sources needed to show notability. You should not edit the article yourself, but should furnish references and propose changes on the talk page. Let me know and I will review your proposed changes, and add them to the article, if they comply with our policies and guidelines. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:49, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

After reading the comments you left on two other editor's talk pages, you seem to have a serious misunderstanding of what Wikipedia is. Your organization does not control our article Camp Stone. This is not LinkedIn or Facebook. That is an encyclopedia article about the camp. It is not a promotional piece for the camp. Anyone can edit Wikipedia in compliance with our policies and guidelines, and they don't need the camp's permission. If the camp is in Pennsylvania, then it will be categorized as a camp in Pennsylvania. Explain all that to the camp leadership, and please declare your conflict of interest on your user page, which is currently blank. Thank you. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 22:00, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Camp Stone - (con't)

Thank you for your response. I understand how Wikipedia works, but the problem is that someone posted mis-information about the institution and the leadership wanted it cleaned up. the text edits I made are accurate and the text on the page now appropriately represents accurate information about the institution. Now, with respect to cross references that I wanted to deleted for safety purposes, i understand that such isn't up to me and that there is a separate forum for that on another page. I will do some research into that.

as a separate matter, who was editing our page? Does that individual have knowledge of camp stone? Whoever it was is missing information and perhaps I should speak to that person directly.

Thanks for your help as I get introduced further to the world of editing on Wikipedia.

All the best, Yakov --Yakfleisch (talk) 22:05, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Hello again Yakfleisch. No need to start a new thread. Just continue the old one. You can click on the edit history tab on the article and see every single edit to the article since it was created in 2007, by an editor who hasn't been active since later in 2007. There is no need to try chasing down individual editors. Post your concerns in detail on the talk page, along with links to independent reliable sources verifying the information. Let me tell you about one of Wikipedia's cultural norms: When someone says an article contains misinformation, they are expected to identify the inaccuracies precisely, and furnish a citation to a reliable source that has the accurate information. Generalized non-specific complaining is usually ignored or discounted. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 22:22, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

That's helpful. Thank you again for everything. I will do some more reading on how certain things on the page work and try to suggest appropriate edits. So if i suggest edits on the talk page, who is going to make the edits on the wikipedia side? --Yakfleisch (talk) 22:51, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

I will make the edits unless another editor comes along first, Yakfleisch. I will make some additional edits on my own. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 23:02, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

excellent. thank you. looking forward to working together. --108.254.114.1 (talk) 04:03, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Jim - Thank you for taking the time to be the editor on this page. A few comments about your edits.

1. 1 - our camp motto was altered so that it doesn't match what is on our website. Our motto is : "To cultivate within every child that walks through the gates of Camp Stone an unwavering lifelong commitment to Am Yisrael, Eretz Yisrael, and Torat Yisrael. We encourage our campers to develop their own individual leadership potential, enable them to become self-reliant, and encourage them to become a contributing and functional member of the group or “kvutza.” We aim to provide a safe, nurturing, and family-like environment in which we care for our campers’ physical, emotional, spiritual, and educational needs." "Am Yisrael, Eretz Yisrael, and Torat Yisrael" is an expression that means "The Nation of Israel, the Land of Israel, and the Torah of Israel" -- which is the motto of Bnei Akiva, the youth group organization we are affiliated with. That is what is written in Hebrew in the info box on the page. That should not be changed on wikipedia. it seems...

1. 2 - the info box is for a "university" or something like that. This is a summer camp. It creates confusion on Facebook.

1. 3 - Speaking of facebook, is there a way for it not to pick up this page and instead to pick up our official camp stone Facebook page, so that there aren't multiple facebook pages.

1. 4 - I have a new image for you to put up on wikipedia if you want it for our page. How do I send that to you?

1. 5 - while we do have a cattle car replica in our camp, it is but one tiny piece of a much larger incredible summer camp featuring all sorts of things. Shouldn't we reference other things in the camp? Why does that have to be on there?

1. 6 - I have a lot of accurate information for you about the history of the organization, etc. Should I send that to you to post in a history section?

1. 7 - I can tell you more about the camp in general. Should I send you that info to post?

1. 8 - We have concerns about our camp being linked to a specific spot in Pennsylvania. There are other camps I know of that are not on that list, so it begs the question as to why we were included.

That's it for now. Thanks. Yakfleisch (talk) 18:03, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Hello Yakfleisch. A couple of points: You are welcome to discuss general things about editing Wikipedia here at any time. However, detailed discussion of article content should take place on the article's talk page going forward. I will copy this material to that talk page and respond in detail later today. I am busy with "real world" work right now. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 19:16, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

I am not "the editor on this page", but just an editor who has agreed to do a bit of work here. Any editor can edit this page at any time, in compliance with our policies and guidelines. Here are answers to your eight questions, Yakfleisch:

1. 1 - We do not build organizational articles around mottos and mission statements, which are written by such organizations themselves. Please read WP:SLOGAN. Instead, we summarize what reliable, independent sources say about the topic. I translated the transliterated Hebrew and paraphrased the motto in my own words because a Wikipedia article should be original writing, not a "copy and paste" of writing by the subject.

1. 2 - I will look into the infobox issue. Infoboxes are optional so it may be best to use either a generic infobox in this case, or just eliminate it.

1. 3 - Wikipedia has no control or influence over how Facebook's automated bots surf our site and scrape up content to display to their users. Our content is freely licensed and anyone can use it anywhere else as they see fit, as long as a Wikipedia article is credited as the source.

1. 4 - You can log into our sister project Wikimedia Commons using your same username and password, and upload any image you are willing to freely license there. You must be the copyright holder. Give it a descriptive file name like "Camp Stone 2014.jpg" or something comparable, and give me the file name when you are done. I can then add it to the article for you

1. 5 - As mentioned earlier, our articles summarize what reliable, independent sources say about a topic, not what the person or group in question says about themselves. So, in this case, I found an article in Tablet that described the cattle car in the context of your camp encouraging aliyah. If you can provide me with copies of other coverage of your camp in other reliable sources, then the article can be expanded with a wider range of information.

1. 6 - Material published by your camp about itself is of limited use to me. What I really need is several more articles about your camp, similar to the Tablet article already referenced. You can go to my user page and click the email link in the menu to the left to contact me. Be sure that I have the name of the publication and date.

1. 7 - Similar to #6 above, anything you tell me directly about your camp is original research which is not allowed on Wikipedia. I need material published by others about your camp more than anything else.

1. 8 - This is an encyclopedia article about a summer camp - an organization inextricably tied to a certain piece of real estate in western Pennsylvania. Such an article will always identify the location accurately. The same is true of articles about historic buildings, parks, stadiums, museums and so on. The reason that Camp Stone is included is that someone took the time to write an article about your camp back in 2007, and it remains here today. We categorize articles in various ways, including that Pennsylvania camp template, and organize them as time goes by, so that someone interested in summer camps in general, or more narrowly, camps in Pennsylvania, can easily access all such articles. You were included in the category because someone noticed the article and categorized it. Other camps were not included, either because no one has taken the time to write a Wikipedia article about them, or no one has yet categorized them properly. If you know of other such camps, you can either write articles about them yourself or categorize them yourself. This is a massive worldwide project with nearly 4.7 million articles in English, and many millions more in over a hundred other languages. It is and will always remain an unfinished project, but we work to improve it every hour of every day.

I hope my answers are helpful and informative to you. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 00:53, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Jim,

In response:

1 - I have an excellent article for you done by someone independently. I will get it to you.

2 - please eliminate the info box. It's unnecessary.

3 - understood regarding facebook.

4 - we decided against an image for now. let's leave it blank.

5 - see #1 above

6 - see #1 above

7 - see #1 above

8 - understood.

thanks. yakov. Yakfleisch (talk) 19:54, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Jim,

There is an excellent article by Alex Pomson about Camp Stone. Dr. Alex Pomson is a senior lecturer at the Melton Centre for Jewish Education at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. He can be reached at apomson@mscc.huji.ac.il. The link to the article online is here: http://ravsak.org/where-consciousness-meets-community-clues-camp-about-jewish-leadership Thanks, Yakov Yakfleisch (talk) 18:18, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Hello Yakov, I added the Pomson article as "Further reading". I switched from Infobox university to Infobox organization, which I think is more appropriate. What do you think? Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 00:38, 16 December 2014 (UTC)