Talk:Cameron Carter-Vickers

"American soccer player" or just "soccer player"

I am opening this up for discussion after a relatively lengthy—and not always very friendly—discussion on my talk page (here: User_talk:Anwegmann#Cameron_Carter-Vickers) about whether Carter-Vickers should be referred to a) as an American in the lede and/or b) as a "soccer" or "football" player if "American" is dropped. In the discussion on my talk page, there are a couple of references to previous discussions about the issue, and it seems as though we never arrived at a consensus. I have provided links to the separate references in the discussion linked above. It is my understanding, from these discussions, that Carter-Vickers should, if anything, be referred to as a "soccer" player. In my opinion, he should also be referred to as an American, because his sporting nationality has never been in question, at least as far as the nation which he represented is concerned. Having only ever represented the United States, his birth in England does not matter as far as his footballing nationality is concerned. There is a good amount of precedent with the pages of other American national team members to support this opinion, but I am very much open to other arguments. What I am suggesting, at the very least, is that there is no question that he should be referred to as a "soccer" player. Here are the links:

1) Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 130#Cameron Carter-Vickers

2) Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 138#"Footballer," "association football player," or "soccer player"? Anwegmann (talk) 18:57, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

It's a tricky one. However, he grew up and was educated in England and has only played in English football. Maybe Cameron should get in contact and tell us how he feels. 😁

I had someone say to me when I changed it from soccer to football, someone said how did Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham and Defoe, would I change them to soccer. The answer is no because they didn't grow up in the United States (or Defoe in Canada).

A lot of other footballers on Wikipedia have their nationality missed out at the start because they represent a country different to where they were brought up. However, at the end of the day the nationality doesn't matter. We're all human and someone's nationality shouldn't be such an argument. Why can't we just miss out the nationality at the beginning? We can still what country these international footballers represent.

However, we should stick to football over soccer. I think football should be known as football purely as he plays for Tottenham and grew up in England. Maybe if he played outside of Europe we could say soccer.

Let's try to respect how we deal with this though. Cameron will have his own opinions which most of us won't know what they are.

Cheers,

Beeney :) Beeney xx (talk) 22:56, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

Typos

• did Gerrard, Lampard, Defoe and Beckham - when they crossed the pond

• Miss nationality but still mention what team they represent at international level. Beeney xx (talk) 22:59, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

I have absolutely no idea a) what you are saying or b) what this has to do at all with Gerrard, Lampard, Defoe, or Beckham. Carter-Vickers is an American citizen who has only ever represented the United States, both at senior level and several youth levels. Those facts don't apply in any way to any of the players you mention. This has also been discussed a number of times.

Also, this is covered in the Wikipedia Manual of Style, so using "football" over "soccer" is not a matter of opinion. The question is whether or not we should use the national demonym of "American" in the lede or not. Carter-Vickers, again, is an American citizen who has only ever represented the United States internationally. As far as being a footballer is concerned, he is American. So American English is the proper language of the article. As a result, the word "soccer" is the only option based on the Manual of Style. Anwegmann (talk) 00:37, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

You were the one who originally mentioned Gerrard, Beckham, Lampard and Defoe.

Sorry, would you like to me repeat my point of view in American English? ;) Beeney xx (talk) 09:32, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

I never mentioned Gerrard, et al. I'm not sure what you mean. In any case, there's no point in continuing this discussion. And sure, American English would be more appropriate, given the article we were discussing. Anwegmann (talk) 15:23, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

I was the one who mentioned those players, if you can tell the difference between a string of numbers and the name Anwegmann. Plus your summary never mentioned C-V growing up anywhere, only that he plays in England, so me bringing up Beckham etc was completely justified. 2A00:23C5:E187:5F00:79E5:2D74:8E5D:1331 (talk) 16:02, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Did you sign your post? In any case, though, I agree re: "playing in England" having nothing to do with anything. Anwegmann (talk) 16:31, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

@numberguy, you didn't sign your post mate so thought you were that Anwegmann guy. It's not worth getting into an argument over. Can't be bloody arsed.

Have a good one guys

Beeney :)

Beeney xx (talk 23:23, 20 August 2021 (UTC)

Language

I still find it odd, for a British citizen, why the whole article is American just because he is an Englishman who plays for USA!! Govvy (talk) 22:04, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Given that he was an American citizen upon birth (jus sanguinis citizenship), he has been an American citizen exactly as long as he has been a British citizen. So one could just as easily claim, using your own template of validity, that he is an American who was born in the UK! More to the point, given that he has been an American citizen since the moment he was born and that he has only ever played for the United States at any level, his birth in the UK has nothing to do with his footballing nationality, not to mention his identity. In other words, it is not odd in the slightest, especially in light of the standards dictated by Wikipedia:Article_titles#National_varieties_of_English. Anwegmann (talk) 22:53, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

And yet he has spent most of his adult life living and playing in the UK. Govvy (talk) 07:55, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

That's the case for a lot of international footballers, but it makes no difference. Anwegmann (talk) 16:31, 11 June 2022 (UTC)